Untangling Excellence and Perfectionism: How Do We Know Where the Line is?

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Welcome to the, Again, podcast

sponsored by Entrusted Ministries.

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I'm your host, Stephanie Hickox, and today

I'm joined by the wonderful Betsy Corning

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herself, and the amazing Emily Dio.

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We're in the middle of a series entitled

Untangled, and we're untangling what

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biblical motherhood really looks like.

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Today's lesson is focusing on the

difference between perfectionism

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and excellence and what the Lord

has called us to in our marriages,

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in our homes, and in all of life.

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Whether you're guiding a child that

struggles with this or discerning

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the balance yourself, we feel

this episode is truly practical.

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And we think there are lots of action

steps you can take in your home.

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So, let's get to it!

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Emily, what are some things that you're

excited about for this coming year

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?

I think a couple things.

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Establishing a routine.

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I love the freshness of it, and just,

they're gaining new perspective,

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And I'm looking forward to

honestly watching my kids

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thrive in a new environment.

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This is the first year that they're

going to be in a new school . And

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so, I'm looking forward to seeing

them in their activities and

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and what all that will bring.

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Sorry, I just have to ask, are you

excited about some seasonal drinking?

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It's getting close, girls,

to seasonal drinking.

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And Betsy, how about you?

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What are you excited about

for this coming year?

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Well, I'm very excited about some of our

entrusted projects that we're working on.

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I don't know if I can really talk

about them, but one of course is

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the BODCAST did I say BODCAST?

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Oh.

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I'm glad we're not showing these BODs.

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I'm looking forward to some projects that

we're doing with Entrusted this year.

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And every year it's

something new and exciting.

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And I'm not sure if I can really

speak to one yet, but one of them

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would be this podcast and I'm

really excited to be a part of it.

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And Stephanie's really worked hard.

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Emily and Jen to make this happen.

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So we hope that it really

encourages moms out there.

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I'm also looking forward to just really

watching my grandkids play sports.

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They are so strong and energetic, and

they can really hit that ball and jump,

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and it's really a pleasure to watch.

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I mean, I really do enjoy watching them,

and they're, they're growing up, but

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really seeing them embrace spiritual

things with greater clarity and depth, we

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just moved here, so we've been here less

than a year, just, we've moved just like

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you, Emily, and it's fun to be in a whole

new location and just settle in, right?

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Absolutely.

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How about you, Steph?

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Well, I'm excited, I'm podcast too.

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It's a really neat endeavor

and I've been learning a lot.

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It's been on our hearts for a long

time to reach moms, however we can.

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And this is such an

amazing platform to do it.

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So that's been really exciting

to have that in the wings.

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Also, I like the start of fall, I like

the freshness, I like planners, I love

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the movie You've Got Mail when he says,

if I knew you, I would buy you a bouquet

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of sharpened pencils, and I just think

that's a cute line, I like the fresh

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start of it, and my oldest is actually

embarking upon His seventh grade year,

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and in our homeschool community, it

is a big deal, and I think he's really

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gonna flourish under some independence,

and my little girl is turning six.

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And I am excited about The ballerina

bunny tea party theme that she has

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selected, so that'll be in the fall.

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So yeah, so it feels like it's

a lot of exciting things coming.

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Hopefully, I feel like they're

still exciting in November, right?

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I think if we're talking about

perfectionism and excellence, most

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people are going to think, well,

what's really the difference?

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So maybe we start out sort of

defining our terms so people have

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an idea of where we're coming from.

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I think when we talk about

perfectionism, we're really talking

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about trying to do things perfectly.

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But we can't do things perfectly.

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So, we strive and we try harder.

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And we're sort of beating ourselves

against the wall, or whatever, because

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we can't achieve perfection on our own.

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We only achieve perfection through Christ.

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Christ is our perfection when

the, when God looks at us.

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He sees perfection through his son, but

we won't really ever achieve perfection in

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this life until we are glorified with him.

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So we would say that perfectionism

is work based, and we can never,

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you know, achieve perfectionism.

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So we always feel like a failure.

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So how would you say that

would differ from excellence?

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Well, I think perfectionism is always

striving and I think excellence is

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gained by submitting Will to the Lord.

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There is no perfection that

is attainable on this side of

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heaven as, as we would define it.

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But I think excellence is

constantly yielding our desire

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and our will over to the Lord and

letting Him do His work in it.

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Regardless of what the yielding

that He produces excellence in us.

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This is going to be a topic that's

going to hit close to home for me a lot.

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And I, but I don't think I ever

would have considered myself a

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perfectionist I mean, I just didn't

realize how it was impacting me.

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I think I was just always

trying to honor the Lord.

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And so, My focus was always him, it didn't

feel like it was ever about me, but I can

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see how it has impacted me, and I have

to continually pray for discernment, am

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I pushing to make something excellent,

or to do my best, or am I going for a

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higher standard that's not attainable?

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So, this week as I was praying about

it and I was thinking about, I just

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love and entrusted the phrase you used,

that, Perfectionism leaves you stressed,

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and Excellence leaves you blessed.

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And I loved that, and then the Lord gave

me another one with some alliteration,

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so Perfectionism leaves me paralyzed

to start, and When I'm going after

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excellence, I'm excited to begin.

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And so I can see in my life,

that's more what it looks like.

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My perfectionism isn't always a striving.

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I actually, when I'm doing the

thing, I find more freedom in it.

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It's the being scared to begin.

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Even in my parenting, I'm afraid

to make a decision because I

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don't want to make a mistake.

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I'm praying, praying, praying,

praying, trying to research

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what's the right decision, Lord.

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What's going to honor you the most.

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And then I'm afraid to start.

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So for me personally, that's what

it looks like, but I just felt like

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that was a helpful tool for me.

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The perfectionism leaves me

paralyzed to begin and excellence

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makes me excited to start.

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Yeah.

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I think to further elaborate on

excellence, we would say that there's a

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difference in the motivation of the heart.

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Striving for perfection is more

self motivation, striving to achieve

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an identity through your works.

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Whereas excellence, you feel you

can give it over to the Lord.

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He identifies who you are, and

there's such a freedom in that.

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And now you feel the freedom to work

heartily as unto the Lord and do the

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very best that you can, but you don't

feel this constant pressure, this

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beat down of, I don't measure up.

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And so often I have mothers ask me a

question about their You know, young kids

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who have this perfectionistic quality.

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And I think a lot of kids do.

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I think a lot of us do and

we learn, Oh, we're not going

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to be the best at everything.

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But some kids really do struggle

with, I don't want to play

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this unless I'm the best.

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Or I don't want to try

this unless I'm the best.

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And that is a perspective that

we have to work on as mothers.

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To let them know this isn't your identity.

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Your identity is in the Lord

and we do the best that we can.

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And sometimes we're not the best, but

we pitch in and, and help somebody else.

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There's always going to be somebody

that's a little bit better and

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there's always going to be somebody

that's probably not quite as good.

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Right, right.

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I think that we're not, we're not

here to make those comparisons.

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We're here just to do our best, and

that is suffering, but perfectionism is

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just this constant game of, of comparing

and having to be at the top of that

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heap but that isn't going to get kids

anywhere with that sort of thinking.

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Mm hmm.

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And I, I think you speak so well in

Entrusted about having age appropriate

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standards for our children that I

think as we're trying to train them or

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we're setting up the beautiful biblical

model, and of course we want to, hold

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up God's Word, I think sometimes I can

understand why to certain children it

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feels like we're expecting perfection.

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I think just being very clear where

our expectations are, that they're

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allowed to make mistakes, that the bed

doesn't have to be made perfectly and.

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To hold up a high expectation,

but an attainable one so that

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they can achieve success and that

they're not always falling short.

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When you think about the second

commandment, it's to love others, right?

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When we are working excellently onto

the to it shouldn't be a stress on

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the family, so if you're planning

this beautiful birthday party for your

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children, just so you can post some

pictures on social media, but you, you

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know, really lost it on your husband

and children in the process, then you

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really need to evaluate your heart there.

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Why am I doing this?

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Who is this for?

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Is this for the Lord?

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Is this so my child feels really

special and has a memory to look back

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on or am I trying to impress someone?

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Doing something I'm not called to do.

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I think also of the moms who are striving

for Perfection in their parenting,

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mothering when, first thinking about

this idea of perfection versus excellence

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the Lord led me to 1 Corinthians 3.

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10 that says, by the grace God has

given me, I laid a foundation as a wise

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builder, and someone else is building on

it, but each one should build with care.

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And so that last line, but each one

should build with care, shows us that

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we are building not unto our own glory

or unto perfection, but with care.

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And we're coming along other people

and helping them build as moms should,

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we should be building into each other

and encouraging one another and not

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competing in our, in our parenting

styles or in birthday parties or what

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fill in the blank with whatever, but

we should be coming alongside of and

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encouraging and just doing everything

with care and with excellence as

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unto the Lord and not as unto us.

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I like the word edify, which is really

to mean build each other up in the

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Lord, but it comes from the word

edifice, which means a large building.

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And that's what we are

as the body of Christ.

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We are a large edifice.

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And it's built.

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And structured from the great

cornerstone, which is, of course,

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our foundation, Jesus Christ.

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So when we are building on

the cornerstone, we want to

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build square, level, and plumb.

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So then in every

direction, we are building.

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Well, so that the next brick that goes

on top of us isn't going to fall off.

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So, mm-hmm.

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, we're building into our kids.

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And the verse that Emily shared says that

they'll be building upon the foundation

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of faith that we've built upon Christ.

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And so we have to be careful how we build.

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That's what it says.

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Mm-hmm.

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, be careful how you build.

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So we don't do things haphazardly.

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We try to do things to the best of

our ability, but it comes from the.

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Internal motivation of the heart to

honor the Lord in the things that we do.

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Not work based that our performance

is the thing that wins his favor.

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No, it's just the opposite, right?

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It says we are Christ's workmanship

to do good works, which he

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established beforehand that we

should walk in them, Ephesians 2 10.

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So, it's the salvation comes first.

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And as a result, we

build on that foundation.

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If we don't have that foundation,

although we might, we might have a

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misperception and always be striving to.

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I feel like we have to please the

Lord in everything that we do.

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We don't want to model

that for our kids either.

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To continue on that building analogy,

I was at a homeschool conference this

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spring and I was with a dear friend

and she is just one of those people

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that brings everyone joy around her.

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She's just super fun and delightful and

she tells me stories that I burst out

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laughing later when I'm not with her.

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That's how fun she is.

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We were, we got to the conference

and she needed to charge her phone.

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Like it was absolutely dead.

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And so she's walking around with

the charger in the conference

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center and looking for an outlet.

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And she's like, do you mind if we

just stand here and talk for five

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minutes so I could charge my phone?

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I'm always like this.

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My phone is always dead.

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And as I got to spend more time with

her that weekend, I learned more about

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her family and how she was raised.

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And she grew up in a solid Christian home,

that her parents were just wonderful.

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And they pointed her to the Lord.

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And they, they confronted her

about some irresponsibility and,

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you know, they saw it and they

tried to train her and equip her.

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And yet she's grown up to be a woman who

is so delightful, brings so much joy,

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And looking at her as my friend, I don't

really care if her phone isn't charged.

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But sometimes when I'm thinking about my

kids, I'm trying to target every character

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issue I see, and it just made me think

how it's like Tower of Babel parenting.

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How, if we can just do it better

than the last generation, and better

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than that generation, and better

than that generation, then eventually

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we'll get these kids that are...

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And then, I, I just felt like the Lord

stopped me in my tracks, like, whoa.

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That is not what we're called to at all.

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We're not trying to raise perfect

kids, or kids that are better than

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we are, or better than we turned out.

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We're trying to raise children.

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That wholeheartedly love the Lord, and

that idea of Tower of Babel Parenting

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where we're just trying to get it

better and better and better was a

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really convicting thought for me.

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And even if.

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We see this, this issue that maybe at

10 years old, it feels like, Oh, he

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never picks up his dirty socks, don't

make it a bigger deal than it is.

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He might be the boy who's charging his

phone at the conference center someday,

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but it's his heart solely for the Lord.

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Well, we talk a lot and trusted about

not just controlling exterior behavior,

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and that's what this can tend to be.

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Perfectionism.

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Well, I'm gonna have the model children

because they're never gonna misbehave,

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blah, blah, blah, but we're not really

addressing the issues of the heart.

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And so.

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That's what we call it,

entrusted with a child's heart.

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That's what we want to address.

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And when they have that, they don't, and

they have that foundation of the Lord,

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that chief cornerstone, hopefully that

they'll be learning that life isn't about.

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Image.

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It's just not image.

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And when we, when we lose that

pressure, it is so freeing.

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So in Entrusted, we have something

we call a spectrum of order.

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And there are people that are

opposites, like Steffi was saying.

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There are people that are real permissive.

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They're loosely structured.

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And then there's people on the

other side of the spectrum that

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are almost overly structured.

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And we, Talked about that today

and the people on the one end are

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perfectionists and you know, right

now, as I'm talking to you, which end

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of the spectrum you probably land on.

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And it doesn't have to be to the

extreme, like an extreme perfectionist

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or an extremely permissive person.

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It could be anywhere sort of in

that range, but right in the middle.

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Is where God calls us, not to be

overly either way, but to be balanced,

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to be really having priorities

in order, being Christ centered.

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Those things bring such harmony

and peace to a household.

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So sometimes we recognize ourselves

and we say our tendency is

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towards this side or the other.

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And you know what?

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If you marry somebody, most likely

they're on the opposite of that.

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And so how are you going to work together

to come to the middle, the meeting

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of the minds where one of you has to

tighten up a little bit, I say, and the

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other one has to lighten up a little bit

perhaps, but so that your home can be

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harmonious, stable, and Christ centered.

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Yes, that is, that is most excellent.

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I love the verse in Thessalonians

that talks about making it your

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ambition to live, to lead a quiet

life and work with your hands.

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But I love that idea that the Lord,

throughout all the verses in the

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Bible, he never calls us to be

a perfect mom, a perfect wife, a

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perfect friend, fill in the blank.

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He never calls us to be perfect anything.

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He just calls us to yield to him.

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And and so bringing it full circle

back to what we had said in the

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beginning, that perfection always

causes striving and peace is found

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through excellence of yielding to Him.

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That just brings such comfort

when it takes pressure off.

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And helps to recenter and refocus what,

what we should really be looking at.

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And it's never at our own results.

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I think we often do want, there's

something in us that wants to

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work and earn and say, we did it.

303

: 00:19:53

And I think it's our sinful

nature working against us.

304

: 00:19:55

Sure.

305

: 00:19:56

Mm-hmm.

306

: 00:19:56

, but but it's in the yielding

that we always find that peace.

307

: 00:20:00

Mm-hmm.

308

: 00:20:01

Mm-hmm.

309

: 00:20:02

It's in the yielding,

then we depend on him.

310

: 00:20:04

Mm-hmm.

311

: 00:20:06

My very favorite verse that the

Lord led me to a couple years ago

312

: 00:20:09

when I was praying about this is

in Hebrews 10 verse 11 through 14.

313

: 00:20:15

And every priest stands daily at his

service offering repeatedly the same

314

: 00:20:20

sacrifices which can never take away sins.

315

: 00:20:24

But when Christ had offered for all

time a single sacrifice for sins, He

316

: 00:20:30

sat down at the right hand of God,

waiting from that time until His enemies

317

: 00:20:35

should be made a footstool for His feet.

318

: 00:20:38

For by a single offering He

has perfected for all time

319

: 00:20:43

those who are being sanctified.

320

: 00:20:45

We're already perfect in the Lord's eyes.

321

: 00:20:47

He sees the perfection of Christ, but

we are to continue to be sanctified,

322

: 00:20:53

yes, continue to strive for holiness,

but rest in the fact that Jesus did it.

323

: 00:21:00

And he did it at one moment,

at one time, and he is seated.

324

: 00:21:04

It is finished.

325

: 00:21:06

I love that picture that Jesus

already did it all for me.

326

: 00:21:11

That's so true.

327

: 00:21:11

Mm.

328

: 00:21:12

So my response is then to pursue

holiness out of a joy and a

329

: 00:21:16

delight and an honor for Him.

330

: 00:21:19

Good point.

331

: 00:21:20

I was thinking just a couple of days

ago, how if you look at all the examples

332

: 00:21:26

of the people in the Bible, none of

them are examples of perfectionism.

333

: 00:21:32

There's none.

334

: 00:21:33

There's not even any

perfect relationships.

335

: 00:21:36

So why do we think that

we're going to do it?

336

: 00:21:42

You know, I, I don't know.

337

: 00:21:43

We, we think we're going

to do it on our own.

338

: 00:21:45

And that's why we have to really surrender

it to the Lord and say only through you.

339

: 00:21:51

Can I do the things that I need

to do and build and work with

340

: 00:21:55

this child and all these things.

341

: 00:21:58

I, you know, a little bit ago, when you

were talking about, you know, that messy

342

: 00:22:02

bed, I was thinking, you know, when we

stand over our five year old and they're

343

: 00:22:09

making their bed and they're doing

their best, we think that's perfect.

344

: 00:22:15

That's just perfect because we

look at their best effort or we

345

: 00:22:21

say, you know, you did a good job.

346

: 00:22:23

Um, The Lord looks at us and he

doesn't say, wow, you blew it.

347

: 00:22:28

That wasn't perfect.

348

: 00:22:30

What if that was the way it was?

349

: 00:22:34

It's just not.

350

: 00:22:35

The Lord is working with us

and what a blessing that is.

351

: 00:22:42

And so we need to look

at our children too.

352

: 00:22:45

Do we expect perfection from them?

353

: 00:22:48

That's too much pressure on

them to not, and, and a pressure

354

: 00:22:52

that the Lord would never have.

355

: 00:22:54

Mm hmm.

356

: 00:22:56

I've been convicted in the last

few months that because I know this

357

: 00:23:01

has been an issue for me, that I've

actually maybe given my kids a little

358

: 00:23:07

bit too much leeway in certain areas.

359

: 00:23:10

Not even pushing them towards

excellence in certain ways, giving

360

: 00:23:14

them, a little bit too much slack, and.

361

: 00:23:18

Not letting them really fulfill

their potential in certain areas.

362

: 00:23:21

So, it was just like this little tweak

that the Lord was like, that's good that

363

: 00:23:26

you're trying to not pass that on, but...

364

: 00:23:29

Also, we want them to really

develop their strengths and

365

: 00:23:32

really develop their character.

366

: 00:23:33

It's good that they bear the yoke in their

youth, so, always kind of be evaluating

367

: 00:23:39

what the messages we're sending are.

368

: 00:23:42

And it changes as you're raising your

children because you might have a.

369

: 00:23:48

You have a different standard, but

let's say you have a standard for your

370

: 00:23:52

younger child that you can hold them to.

371

: 00:23:54

You want them to, as far as

obedience, they need to hit the

372

: 00:23:58

bullseye of the target in obedience.

373

: 00:24:01

And when they've learned that, and they've

learned to humble their heart and submit

374

: 00:24:05

their heart and, and they understand that,

and then you're working on their training.

375

: 00:24:10

And then when they're a little bit older,

you're not You're not demanding complete

376

: 00:24:17

conformity to particular standards.

377

: 00:24:19

For instance, that their bedroom or their

room has to be just perfect every day.

378

: 00:24:26

And because what you're doing

is you're giving them leeway.

379

: 00:24:30

To develop their own conviction on

something they've already been taught.

380

: 00:24:34

Okay, take this brick and build

on the foundation you've been

381

: 00:24:38

given, and do your best work at it.

382

: 00:24:41

And maybe the brick falls off,

or maybe whatever happens, you're

383

: 00:24:44

helping them learn how to build their

own foundation, rather than us just

384

: 00:24:50

bringing them along in a way that

they have to conform 100 percent to

385

: 00:24:54

our way, so that when they leave the

home, they have no idea what to do.

386

: 00:24:58

Because now they don't have

that intense structure.

387

: 00:25:01

So that's why we put that spectrum of

order in the notebooks so that people can

388

: 00:25:06

see, do I tend this way or the other way?

389

: 00:25:09

And do I need to, like we say,

lighten up or tighten up a little bit?

390

: 00:25:13

It's always good to, you know,

our husbands can tell us and

391

: 00:25:18

something we work on together.

392

: 00:25:20

Yes.

393

: 00:25:20

My husband and I have definitely worked

on this together for many, many years.

394

: 00:25:24

Yes.

395

: 00:25:25

I think I've realized that ideally my

husband brings the peace because his

396

: 00:25:32

idea of like a great day is just a great

nap and, and my, and I bring the fun.

397

: 00:25:38

If we can meet together, that

can be a good refining and a good

398

: 00:25:42

balance and to embrace that as the

Lord's sanctification in our life.

399

: 00:25:48

Of course there are probably

some sandpaper moments as you're

400

: 00:25:50

getting to that realization.

401

: 00:25:52

I've talked about the birthday party

idea a couple of times here, but I

402

: 00:25:56

love to throw parties, but my husband

doesn't really enjoy that as much.

403

: 00:26:00

And so, I want to do it, then

that's going to be mostly on me.

404

: 00:26:04

And then he also was like, can we

just not have them all the time?

405

: 00:26:08

It turned out to be a really good thing

for me because he said, what if we just

406

: 00:26:12

have them for our kids every five years?

407

: 00:26:15

We didn't know we were going to have our

four kids pretty close together, so it

408

: 00:26:19

still turns out to be about, you know, a

big one every year, but but that's a neat

409

: 00:26:24

thing that is even set a good standard

for our kids where I'm not achieving

410

: 00:26:29

this crazy unattainable thing of a

big party every year for each of them.

411

: 00:26:33

It's like, hey, you know, this

year it's a family party, but in

412

: 00:26:37

two years it is your turn and mom

is going to go all out for you.

413

: 00:26:42

And so it's.

414

: 00:26:43

Turned into a really fun

thing in our home of balance.

415

: 00:26:46

And I'm grateful for that boundary

that the Lord put in place.

416

: 00:26:51

And that is the point.

417

: 00:26:53

Yeah.

418

: 00:26:53

Husbands help us do that.

419

: 00:26:55

They help us do that.

420

: 00:26:56

I used to be so rigidly over structured

when I was first married because

421

: 00:27:02

I had a plan and a direction and

I was on it and, you know, don't.

422

: 00:27:08

You get me off track here and he

was much more easygoing and thank

423

: 00:27:13

goodness for that in my life.

424

: 00:27:16

Like you say, it brings balance.

425

: 00:27:18

It takes you from the edge

of the cliff sometimes.

426

: 00:27:22

I felt like maybe I was a Toy

that was just wound too tight.

427

: 00:27:26

And he helped me just realize, you

know, the, just to ease up a little bit.

428

: 00:27:33

So that's kind of a part of marriage

that is, it's obviously sanctifying,

429

: 00:27:37

but it can also be enjoyable.

430

: 00:27:38

So, you know, don't just look

at where you are on this.

431

: 00:27:42

But look at where your husband is.

432

: 00:27:44

Look at where your children is.

433

: 00:27:45

It actually helps us understand why

we might be like sandpaper, like you

434

: 00:27:52

said, or maybe we, you know, function

really well together, but to tell you

435

: 00:27:56

the truth, if you were both on the

very permissive side or both on the

436

: 00:28:00

very structured, rigid, perfectionist

side, there would be worse problems.

437

: 00:28:06

Having the opposites is actually helpful

in achieving balance in the home.

438

: 00:28:13

And I wish people realize this.

439

: 00:28:15

There's just really a beauty

in being so different.

440

: 00:28:19

Embrace the difference, right?

441

: 00:28:22

Yes, absolutely.

442

: 00:28:24

Yes.

443

: 00:28:24

I love how you said that

444

: 00:28:26

the truth is always, and when

we're talking about in this

445

: 00:28:28

regard, it's always in the middle.

446

: 00:28:30

And and yes, I think the Lord puts our

husbands in our life, our kids in our

447

: 00:28:35

life, and it's always a refining moment

to to shed our tendency towards perfection

448

: 00:28:43

and yield it more towards excellent.

449

: 00:28:45

It's always refining and he's

so good to do that to us.

450

: 00:28:48

I read this funny blog post a couple of

years ago by, I think her name is Erin

451

: 00:28:54

Lochner and she used to have her own

HGTV show and she's a believer and she

452

: 00:28:59

wrote a book about chasing slow, which

was great, but she talked about just

453

: 00:29:05

to Admit, I'm doing this for me, she

said she would go around her house on a

454

: 00:29:10

Saturday morning and she'd be cleaning,

cleaning, cleaning and thinking, why

455

: 00:29:13

am I the only one who cleans the house

and these aren't mine and I'm picking

456

: 00:29:16

them up and, and she had to come to a

point where she realized, you know what?

457

: 00:29:21

I like the clean house.

458

: 00:29:23

I'm doing this for me.

459

: 00:29:25

To share an example of that.

460

: 00:29:28

With her friends, she said she

knew this couple that the husband

461

: 00:29:32

liked to make toast every day.

462

: 00:29:34

So he would get out the toaster

and make his toast and then

463

: 00:29:38

he wouldn't put it away.

464

: 00:29:40

And the, it drove the wife nuts.

465

: 00:29:42

And she's like, why can't you

just put the toaster away?

466

: 00:29:45

And he said, well, why can't we just

have the toaster on the counter?

467

: 00:29:50

She said, it doesn't look nice.

468

: 00:29:52

We don't have any room, and

he looked at her fancy candle.

469

: 00:29:57

I think we could put it right there,

you know, if we could move your candle.

470

: 00:30:02

And, and she realized, if I'm the one

who wants the toaster in the cabinet,

471

: 00:30:08

then I'm gonna be okay putting it away.

472

: 00:30:10

Sometimes a little bit of that give

and take, like he had to get it out.

473

: 00:30:14

He would really like it on the counter.

474

: 00:30:15

So if it's so important to you to have

it off the counter, maybe you just put

475

: 00:30:18

it away and it's not such a big deal.

476

: 00:30:21

And I like an interested, you talk about.

477

: 00:30:24

To not be ashamed when we like to do

things well before the Lord, but we

478

: 00:30:29

don't need to hide that we can celebrate

that and, and if we know we're doing it

479

: 00:30:34

onto Him, of course, we don't need to be

showy in it, but just to delight in the

480

: 00:30:40

gifts that He gave us or the interest

that He gave us but in that, sometimes

481

: 00:30:46

we have to admit, I'm doing this for me.

482

: 00:30:48

This is because I like it this way

and I'm willing to go the extra

483

: 00:30:52

mile because that makes me happy.

484

: 00:30:54

Jen had some great thoughts to

share as well, even though she

485

: 00:30:56

couldn't join us for this episode.

486

: 00:30:59

She has a sweet daughter who

would fall on the perfectionistic

487

: 00:31:03

side, and Jen regularly tells her,

Your perfection is for heaven.

488

: 00:31:07

Just don't even try on this side

of earth to hit that, that mark.

489

: 00:31:12

Just be excellent for the Lord.

490

: 00:31:13

So, that was a sweet thought.

491

: 00:31:17

So sometimes when we observe somebody

that really does do something excellent,

492

: 00:31:23

like they're a pianist or a violinist,

and you know that they've put in so

493

: 00:31:28

much time to do that excellently.

494

: 00:31:31

And we think.

495

: 00:31:33

We, we praise them.

496

: 00:31:35

We're like, that is

awesome what you've done.

497

: 00:31:38

That's, you've really

accomplished something.

498

: 00:31:40

It's beautiful.

499

: 00:31:41

And it is.

500

: 00:31:43

But when it comes to somebody who does

beautiful birthday parties for their kids,

501

: 00:31:50

or something keeps a very clean house, we

tend to think Oh, she's way over the top.

502

: 00:31:57

Why can't we say to those women,

wow, you do that really well.

503

: 00:32:04

I applaud you for that.

504

: 00:32:05

I think we need more of that.

505

: 00:32:08

Not this striving for perfection,

but this freedom to tell women

506

: 00:32:14

that you, Do you do well and what

can I learn from you in that?

507

: 00:32:20

You know in the last I'm older than

both of you that in the 70s When I was

508

: 00:32:28

in college in the late seventies, there

was the feminist movement and it moved

509

: 00:32:34

away from women being in the home.

510

: 00:32:37

And we've reaped the consequences of

that for the last many, many years.

511

: 00:32:43

But I was so actually happy when

Martha Stewart came on the scene

512

: 00:32:49

and she brought domesticity back

to the house, to women, because

513

: 00:32:57

before that it was looked down upon.

514

: 00:33:01

Like, you didn't bake a

pie anymore, what's that?

515

: 00:33:05

You went and you bought it, or, you

know, it just was, every card that

516

: 00:33:10

you saw in the Hallmark store, even in

the Hallmark store, would be putting

517

: 00:33:16

down being at home and making a home.

518

: 00:33:21

But I love that it became sort of trendy

and vogue again to really care about

519

: 00:33:27

your home and the environment that you're

creating for your family to live in.

520

: 00:33:32

And that's important.

521

: 00:33:34

So we don't want it to be so stringent

that they're afraid to move anything

522

: 00:33:39

in the living room, you know but we

also want it to be, somebody once

523

: 00:33:43

told me when I was younger, early

married, your house should only be as.

524

: 00:33:49

Organized as it makes everybody

in your house feel comfortable.

525

: 00:33:54

And you know, at that point

it was just David and I.

526

: 00:33:56

So if David is uncomfortable

because I'm too rigid.

527

: 00:34:00

That's not a good thing.

528

: 00:34:02

But if I'm uncomfortable because he's

too lax, then that's not a good thing.

529

: 00:34:07

So then here we are back at

that balance again and working

530

: 00:34:11

towards honoring each other.

531

: 00:34:13

So learning how to do

things well together.

532

: 00:34:16

To keep order in the home.

533

: 00:34:17

Is it a, you know, a command of the

Lord that we have order in the home?

534

: 00:34:22

Yes.

535

: 00:34:23

So let's not shrink it off

and say, that's outdated.

536

: 00:34:27

We don't need to do that.

537

: 00:34:28

We do need to do that.

538

: 00:34:30

But enjoy it.

539

: 00:34:32

Enjoy it.

540

: 00:34:32

And if you do something

well, good for you.

541

: 00:34:35

I'm glad.

542

: 00:34:35

I applaud it.

543

: 00:34:37

That's so encouraging to hear that

everyone's order in the home will

544

: 00:34:41

look different and that's okay.

545

: 00:34:43

It's, you know, based couple

by couple, family by family.

546

: 00:34:47

That's such an encouraging word.

547

: 00:34:48

I think we often think everybody should be

cookie cutter, but in these areas we have

548

: 00:34:54

freedom to structure our home as as it's

comfortable for our family and our spouse

549

: 00:35:01

And it's also so encouraging to hear

that we should be calling out the things

550

: 00:35:08

that we see in other women that they do

well and that they excel in excellence.

551

: 00:35:12

We can learn so much from one another.

552

: 00:35:14

And if we set the competition aside and

just enjoy each other's gifting that

553

: 00:35:20

God has given, we can learn so much.

554

: 00:35:24

Yes, one lady that I learned so much from

and she was so hospitable and David and I,

555

: 00:35:31

they were about 15 years older than David

and I when we were in the Navigators in

556

: 00:35:35

college and they were inviting the, you

know, us college kids over all the time.

557

: 00:35:41

And I would say, I just can't believe

how you can keep your house always

558

: 00:35:46

ready, you know, to receive company.

559

: 00:35:49

And she's, you know, she

said, it's not clean.

560

: 00:35:52

I just like candles so

you can't see the dust.

561

: 00:35:56

And I thought that was awesome

because, you know, we felt so

562

: 00:36:03

welcomed and so you know, just happy

and accepted and comfortable there.

563

: 00:36:09

And I thought it was perfect.

564

: 00:36:10

I thought it was perfect.

565

: 00:36:11

Yes.

566

: 00:36:11

But she tipped her hand a little bit

and said, you know, it's really not.

567

: 00:36:16

And But it really was, you know, because

that was, that was the harmonious, stable,

568

: 00:36:25

life giving atmosphere that was there.

569

: 00:36:28

Yes, and that perfection can keep us

back from opening our home and and

570

: 00:36:33

thinking like, Oh, it's not perfect.

571

: 00:36:35

I don't have the perfect rug or,

or I haven't, I haven't dusted the

572

: 00:36:40

boards along the bottom of the floor.

573

: 00:36:43

How many times have you been in somebody's

house and you, you just feel treated.

574

: 00:36:48

You don't care about all of that stuff.

575

: 00:36:50

You just feel so treated and so cared for.

576

: 00:36:53

And so it's just such a deception.

577

: 00:36:56

That that everything has to

be lined up and so perfect.

578

: 00:37:00

I feel most comfortable in an unperfect

home than a rigid, perfect home.

579

: 00:37:06

So I think it's such a deception

that we so easily fall into when we

580

: 00:37:11

when we don't open our home because

we think it's not so perfect.

581

: 00:37:16

I love that story about the candle.

582

: 00:37:19

Marilyn Boyer is a really, really wise

solid, believing woman of 14 children.

583

: 00:37:26

And I heard her speak once and

she said that their cleaning

584

: 00:37:31

night in their home was Tuesday.

585

: 00:37:33

And so if company came over

on Friday, they didn't, you

586

: 00:37:37

know, they didn't do more.

587

: 00:37:38

They had cleaned the home and

stewarded it well on Tuesday.

588

: 00:37:41

And so she was training her kids.

589

: 00:37:43

We have order.

590

: 00:37:44

We take care of what God has given us,

but we don't have to, you know, scramble

591

: 00:37:48

because we're having company over.

592

: 00:37:50

And I thought that was

a really neat standard.

593

: 00:37:53

And, and so I also, you know, to

teach our children routines and you

594

: 00:37:58

know, sometimes I'll realize like

people are coming over and my kids are

595

: 00:38:01

watching me scramble a little bit and

I'm just thinking, oh, this is great.

596

: 00:38:05

I'm getting stuff done and, and, but

I think their perception sometimes

597

: 00:38:09

is like, we don't want to have people

over, you know, and I'm like, oh,

598

: 00:38:14

I'm like, oh no, no, I'm sorry.

599

: 00:38:16

Like.

600

: 00:38:17

I'm doing this because it's exciting

for me to get something accomplished,

601

: 00:38:21

and I'm just kind of trying to

be super efficient, but to them,

602

: 00:38:24

it seems like a frenzy sometimes.

603

: 00:38:27

Yeah.

604

: 00:38:27

Yes.

605

: 00:38:28

I think we've hit on a couple

points several times that...

606

: 00:38:31

Perfectionism does leave you

stressed, maybe paralyzed to begin,

607

: 00:38:36

comparing yourself and putting a

high standard for your children and

608

: 00:38:40

maybe even for your spouse standards

that the Lord did not give us.

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: 00:38:45

And excellence leaves you feeling

blessed, excited to begin and

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: 00:38:50

elevating others and their gifts.

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: 00:38:53

And most importantly, resting in

the finished work of Jesus Christ.

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: 00:38:59

And I think this is such a

practical, applicable lesson

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: 00:39:03

that we can all probably embrace.

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: 00:39:05

this week, whether it's, lifting someone

up or just adjusting our standards in

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: 00:39:11

our home, making sure we're in the center

of that spectrum of order and emulating

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: 00:39:16

the character of Christ in our homes.