Episode 54

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Published on:

19th Sep 2024

#54. Gentle Parenting, Grace-Based Parenting, and Discipline: Part 2 | To Spank or Not to Spank and Do We Parent Differently If Our Children Are Saved?

At last we utter the controversial word... spank! Do we have to do it? Why or when would we do it? Also, do we parent our children differently when they become saved? We'll talk about this and more in part 2 of our gentle parenting series!

Congrats to our giveaway winners Sarah Burge, Kim Dainsberg, Hayley Lloyd, and Brittany Zajac!

Scriptures Referenced:

Matthew 7:23

Jeremiah 17:8-9

Proverbs 22:15

Ephesians 6:1-4

Galatians 1:10

1 Corinthians 14:33

Colossians 2:8

Transcript
Stephanie:

They're the joyful agains our children shout on the swings, the

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exhausting agains of cooking and laundry,

and the difficult agains of discipline.

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So much of what we do

as mothers is on repeat.

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So what if we woke up with clarity,

knowing which agains we were called

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to, and went to bed believing we

are faithful in what matters most?

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We believe God's Word is

the key to untangle from the

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confusion and overwhelm we feel.

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Let's look up together to embrace a

motherhood full of freedom and joy.

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Hey mama.

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Welcome back to the again, podcast where

we wholeheartedly believe that the things

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you do over and over matter to God.

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I'm your host, Stephanie Hickox.

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And this is brought to you

by entrusted ministries.

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Today, we're beginning at three

part series on gentle parenting.

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You can't go far and studying

parenting these days with out coming

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across this prevalent theory.

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And if we believe that the things

you do over and over matter to God.

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Then there are some key topics in

parenting that we better make sure

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that we are on the same page about.

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And the only page we want to be

on are the pages of scripture.

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In this series, we'll discuss the

origins of the gentle parenting movement.

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We're also going to define our terms.

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We hear a lot about gray spaced.

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Fear-based.

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Gentleness.

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Discipline.

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What does it all mean?

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And what does God's word

really say about it?

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We're going to talk about why

some books written by believers

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on the topic of discipline are

actually not true to scripture.

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We're also going to clarify Entrusted's

position on grace and discipline.

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And make sure that you know

exactly where we stand.

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I think it's really

important before we begin.

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That I share something called

the four DS that Betsy.

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Explains an entrusted.

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The four DS are defiance,

disobedience, danger, and dishonesty.

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And we are called to be biblically

faithful in those moments and

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faithful to our children and directing

them away from those choices.

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I'm going to say those four DS again.

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Defiance disobedience

danger and dishonesty.

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And I think that's so helpful to

understand as we go into this conversation

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that you understand, when do I discipline?

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also Betsy talks about that.

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There is a wide spectrum of

discipline and the Bible provides

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many tools for us as parents

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that we can use.

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To train our children.

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You will hear the controversial word

spank in this series, but when we

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say discipline, we aren't always.

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Meaning spanking our children.

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We'll address spanking quite a

bit in part two of this series.

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We will also speak to the idea of,

do you discipline your children

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differently once they become saved?

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And we're seeing this come up a lot.

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So we want to address that too.

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And please stick around for the

end of the episode, where I

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announced the giveaway winners.

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Stephanie: Let's get to that interview

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Jen: I think one of the benefits that as

we've heard some of the things in culture

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and read the scriptures and studied the

scriptures and then also read and then

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taken entrusted, one of the things that

I appreciate about how entrusted handles

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some of this is it takes some of these

things that these parenting books and

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culture are saying that sound good.

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They sound like they're

scripturally based.

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But it's a little confusing.

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Is the theology on this the way the

Bible teaches, is this psychology,

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is this scripture, what is this

and what does this look like?

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And I feel like Entrusted has done a

good job of helping us to understand the

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difference between biblical principles.

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Convictions and the difference

between that and personal preferences.

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And.

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Personal convictions.

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And it also separates and helps

us understand the difference

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between how to parent a toddler

versus how to parent a teenager.

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The lying in a toddler discipline is

a different than lying in a teenager.

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And not only that, but it also

helps us to discern between

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the will and the emotion.

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What is a willful disobedience and

where does it fall under emotion?

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Or just discern.

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Ignorance, like they,

they need training here.

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And some of these things that we hear in

culture, they put it all in one bucket

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and say, don't ever don't ever say no,

don't ever spank, don't ever give anyone a

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discipline in order to change their heart.

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No, we know we can't change their heart.

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We know that.

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And we're not seeking

behavior modification.

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We are trying to draw out their hearts and

turn their affections towards the Lord.

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But I feel like.

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There's needs to be so much more clarity

on what are, let's define our terms here.

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And, And I think that Entrusted has done a

good job of doing that where some of these

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other parenting things, the terms are not

defined and it causes so much confusion.

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Stephanie: And so much

pressure on the mother.

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What looks on the outset that it would

be a freeing mentality is actually

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causing you to discern so much.

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Is my child safe right now?

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I don't know.

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Are they bearing fruit?

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But there's so much scripture

about saying you might not know.

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Jesus is going to say on

some day, depart from me.

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I never knew you.

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You did all these things in my

name, but you didn't know me.

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And so to ask a mother to be able

to discern that in a young child,

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the Lord's not asking that of us.

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He's asking us to be faithful

and training them in obedience

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is being biblically faithful.

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Betsy: And I think that we need to

understand that there's a spectrum

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of discipline that certain types

of discipline are appropriate for

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different stages, as you said, Jen.

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And of course, thinking is most

appropriate for the younger children

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who equate, touching, going under the

coffee table and bumping their head.

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That discomfort with the mom's

intervene, intervention and saying,

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No, this, you will receive discomfort

if you disobey me in this area.

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And it's really for their safety

and protection also, but for them to

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understand the world has consequences.

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That's how God designed it.

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If we take all that away from our

children, we're just setting them up

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for failure in the world because those

consequences are definitely out there.

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So when we look at the spectrum of

discipline, we can say for older

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children, it could be different things.

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And I think the big.

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The thing for parents is I

don't even like that word.

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I think it's harsh and abusive.

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It's not.

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If you equate it in any way

with abuse, you have a errant

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understanding of what it is.

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I cannot stand.

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I despise it.

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I hate it.

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And so does God.

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Why would God tell us to spank our

children if it was those things?

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It is not.

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But What we do have is an

errant understanding of what

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it is, and therefore, we

assimilate into our thinking.

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We synchronize it with

what the world tells us.

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The world tells us it's abusive and really

what's happened in a lot of those cases is

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one child in a, a huge number Is abused.

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And the pe and the parents say

that they were disciplining them.

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When they weren't disciplining them.

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They were abusing them.

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And let's call abuse.

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And we won't stand for it.

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Mm hmm.

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We hate it, but it is not the same thing.

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And I think because that sort of

rhetoric has played out in the

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last many years, last 50 years.

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That's changed the whole culture and the

culture even within the church to think

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we have to move towards this gentle thing.

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We have to move towards not even

challenging our children when they're,

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taking the cookie out of the cookie

jar before dinner when you said no.

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We just, we have to appeal to their

emotions and say, we know how you

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felt about that cookie and would

it have been a better choice?

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To save it, maybe you want to put it over

here and he'll be waiting for you After

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you eat dinner and all of these things

in which really you're appealing to the

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most selfish based desires of the child

What will appease you maybe I can make you

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think a little bit differently about it

So that I can actually get the behavior I

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want with from you Without any discipline.

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And, as you said before, foolishness is

bound up in the heart of a child and the

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rod of discipline removes it far from him.

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That's important for us to

go through those things.

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If somebody chooses not to

spank, that's their choice.

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If they choose to spank,

that's their choice.

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But we would ask that they would do

it in a biblical in a gracious manner,

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in a gentle manner, in a loving

manner, in a manner where it ends

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with a hug and a kiss and I love you.

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And it's done forever.

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It's such a humane whatever the

discipline is, it needs to end up

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with the child knowing that sin has

been hopefully covered by the Lord.

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Unless the child's is unbelieving,

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Stephanie: The matter has been resolved.

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We're not going to hold it against them.

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it up.

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If we really believe that this is for

the child's future good, we understand

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we are not punishing the child.

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This is not about them paying

a payment for their sin.

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They cannot do that.

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What we're saying is for your good, I

want to draw a line here and say you

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may not do that and we're deterring them

from doing the same thing in the future.

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It is not, they are

not paying for the sin.

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And then if we really believe it's

for their good, it's very hard to

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come into that situation with anger.

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Because there, a lot of this movement

is saying we're being triggered.

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And what is wrong with the mother that

she wants to take this out on a child?

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And part of that is correct.

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Evaluate your heart, make

it right before the Lord.

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You would never take out

your own sin upon your child.

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And we agree with that wholeheartedly.

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But we don't say, because you are

fallen, don't prevent them from sin.

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We would say, get your heart right

before the Lord and understand,

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I want To bless your future.

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I'm setting you up for success

by teaching you boundaries,

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teaching you to obey authority.

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These commands are for

your good as the Lord says.

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Betsy: moralists, but it's, as in the

example of Paul, there's a certain amount

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of training we do as parents, whether

we're believing parents or not, to raise

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a person that's equipped to operate in

society, and all parents will pretty

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much fall under the same guidelines

of, You know, a lot of boundaries,

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but

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what we're talking about is training

that will to submit to the authority

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of their parents that in time it

submits to the authority of God,

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but it goes a step further because

there's no way in the pride of man's

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heart and his selfishness that he can

do that without learning to humbly.

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To come before the Lord in humility.

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There's no prideful person.

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That's gonna say hey, I Accepted

the Lord or and I don't even

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like that term accepted.

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Who are we to say we accept him but

to is gonna come to the Lord in pride.

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Hey, yeah.

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No, we come before him on our faces

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Because

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we realize This is nothing You

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of

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my own doing.

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Entirely of your doing.

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And so we want to be careful that we're

not confusing the two issues there.

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And we want to make sure that people

understand that even if your child

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doesn't seem like they, they may be

remorseful for the situation at the

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time, that it's not It's not until

they receive true salvation, that

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gift, that they will really come

to understand their sin before God.

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And that's why sometimes it's difficult

for young children to accept the

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Lord because they really don't able

to comprehend, how they have sinned

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against God or understand repentance.

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But we're training them in the

skill to say I have done wrong

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and I want to make it right.

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I, and it's humane for the child to

remove that anxiety of what they've done.

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Jen: And

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we're training them up the

way that they should go.

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These are spiritual disciplines that

God calls us to seek forgiveness

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When we have done something wrong

to someone else and in our own

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efforts, we can't muster that up

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we can't arrive there.

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It has to be the Holy Spirit

working in us, but that doesn't

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mean that we don't train our

children in the way they should go.

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And we pray and constantly entrusted as

talking about as the scriptures do to

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lift up our child before the Lord and

ask the Lord to do the work in their

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hearts and to to, Change the pattern

of sinful behavior to fill him with

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the Holy Spirit and that the, that this

child would become a child of the King.

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But we, that doesn't negate that we don't.

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We don't train them just until they become

a Christian because who, what parent

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ever knows when that exact moment is.

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And so we train them up

in the way we should go.

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And we let the Lord be the

one to change the heart.

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We just take the tools that he has

given us and we are faithful with

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those tools of spiritual disciplines.

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And we lay those before the

cross and we lift our child up

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in prayer as well as ourselves.

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I am constantly praying.

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God, I don't know what

to do in this moment.

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Give me wisdom.

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Give me discernment.

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Help me to understand how I can handle

this little heart here and how I

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can turn its affections towards you.

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How I can make awareness of the sin

and what's going on because their heart

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is deceitful and desperately wicked.

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So is mine.

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But you've given us different

definitions in scripture of what sin is.

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You've given us definitions and Examples

of what obedience is, and you've

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given us definitions and examples of

what happens when we don't obey you.

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If you tell us not to look back, and

we do, you become a pillar of salt.

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There are consequences in scripture.

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And so we are trying to help them

to understand this is for your good.

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This is for a God who loves

you and you want to submit your

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heart and your life to him.

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He is a good God and he is trustworthy.

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Betsy: And I

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think we have to figure out

what does obedience mean?

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And does the Lord ask

our children to obey?

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We know that there's just a,

there's one commandment that

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God gives children in the Bible.

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It's children obey your

parents in the Lord.

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Honor your father and mother,

obey and honor your parents.

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I think obedience

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is pretty, pretty clear there.

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But if we weren't sure, then we could

go through the whole Bible and we could

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see it everywhere as a pervading theme.

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So why would it be that we would think

that our children wouldn't need to obey

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us or that we could, allow their little

minds to figure it out for themselves or

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Basically we're letting their desires rule

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Jen: to ask them, why did you do that?

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They don't know why they did that.

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They wanted the toy and they

grabbed it from their brother.

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They don't have the ability to

discern and understand that.

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And so we're training them, look.

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In your heart, you probably were selfish

or you were jealous or different things.

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These are things that our hearts do.

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And mommy has that as well.

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That doesn't allow us

to continue on in that.

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We don't ask the child

why they were doing it.

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We help them along to see.

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Now as an older child, yes, a teenager,

we have those discussions with them, but

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with the little toddler, We're helping

them understand what is going on in

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their hearts because they don't know.

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All they saw is a toy that they wanted,

but they didn't understand why they

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wanted it or , why it's wrong to take it.

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Stephanie: Well, I think that's why I

love the full circle so much because

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they're age appropriate questions.

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If you say what happened, you're

helping the child express.

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They're communicating about their

sin and it's revealing to them.

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They're starting to become

aware of their sin, asking

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them a deeper heart motivation.

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They might know, because like you

said, it can take us a while to figure

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out our heart motivations, but saying

what happened and talking over the

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situation and guiding them, what would

have been the God honoring choice.

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Those are much more age appropriate

and I've seen, even in my three year

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olds, this is incredible how this

process really guides them in such

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a restorative process of recognizing

their sin, recognizing You know what

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they should have done differently and

recognizing their need for a savior.

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And then it concluding in so much

resolution and love and tenderness between

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us that to me, when I read about what

spanking is for other people, it does,

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it grieves my heart because God designed

it to be such a restorative process.

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Jen: And I think that we also need

to teach and train our children, as

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scripture says, to take every thought

captive and make it obedient unto Christ.

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That they are not to just take their every

whim of emotion and follow it through

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and imagine all the different things.

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No, you are in control of this.

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You take that thought and you

make it captive and hold it.

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Take it captive and make

it obedient to Christ.

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And we teach them and train them how

to do it, because that is not in

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their hearts, that's not natural.

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Stephanie: I love in Galatians 1

10, it says, For am I now seeking

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the approval of men, or of God?

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Or am I trying to please man?

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If I were still trying to please man,

I would not be a servant of Christ.

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And I think that's such a good

caution for if we're continually

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researching what the world has to say.

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And we're not digging into

scripture for ourselves.

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Or even if we're listening to what some

other believers are saying, we need

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to be testing that by the word of God.

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So that would be my challenge.

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I didn't read, as many books as you

engendered on this, but I felt you know

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what, I'm just going to start in the word.

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And, you can't get very far without

finding that God says, no, you may

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not touch this tree in the garden.

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And then you see how their

disobedience creates fear.

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They now have an unhealthy fear of God.

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And you can see.

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That they were walking with him in

the garden and having peace with

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God when they were obeying him.

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So you see that the Lord

sets clear boundaries for us.

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And then of course we know

that Jesus was promised and

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he restores that relationship.

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But then you get, even if you start

in the new Testament and Zachariah did

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not believe God's promise and the Lord

gave him a consequence right away.

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So we can see these blessings of

obedience and these consequences

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for disobedience all over scripture.

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the Lord will be so faithful to reveal

truth to us when we are in his word.

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We can't be reading many

things in the world.

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And then, going to scripture a

little bit for snacking, and expect

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that all of this will become clear.

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Betsy: 1433 for God is not a God

of confusion, but of peace as in

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all the churches of the saints.

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There's being in a fellowship of

believers that know the truth and

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follow the truth and live under

the authority of God's word.

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There's a peace in that.

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It's not a constant fear of what people

think or judging your parenting, but

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there's a peace in knowing that I'm

doing what And God has called me to do.

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And then, and another verse,

see to it that no one takes

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you captive, Colossians 2, 8,

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2, through

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philosophy and empty deception, according

to the elementary principles of this

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world, according to the traditions of men.

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And I might have those two

phrases backwards, but rather

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than according to Christ.

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So this is always our goal.

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We want everything that we do to

be according to Christ, and we

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are striving to be more like him.

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And in being more like him, we understand

more God's discipline of us because

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people will say and we agree, train

your children the way God trains you or.

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And I often say we can take

that even to a lower level.

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Treat your child the way you'd want

to be treated in the situation.

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But that doesn't mean that

they don't need discipline.

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And I think parents have wrongly

assumed that any sort of discomfort or

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angst or pain or whatever is contrary

to how a child should be raised.

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And that's just not the law

of natural science or physics.

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And I think that in even going one step

further, the Lord allows suffering in

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our lives as a part of our discipline

and not necessarily just for our sin.

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He disciplines us according to his

will that we may be become holy,

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that we may partake in his divine

nature, that we may become more like

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Christ, that we may be sanctified.

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That's nothing we can do and

we can't sanctify our children.

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I think we always need to make that point.

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That's the Lord's work.

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Salvation.

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Lord's work, Sanctification,

completely the Lord's work, but that

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doesn't mean we sit with our hands

in our pockets and we, run around,

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we said yesterday like chickens with

their heads cut off because we are

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completely confused about what to do.

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And when we realize if we're going

to parent the way God parents

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us, we realize that there's some

discomfort, there's consequences.

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That aren't sometimes even a relation,

relating to our disobedience or sin.

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There's some hard lessons in

life that we learn, which are the

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character building lessons that

don't necessarily have consequences.

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But what those are doing is

they're restricting certain

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behaviors to conform us.

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And I don't mean that in the

sense that we're trying to

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make a cookie cutter person.

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We're always looking to You.

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Modeling, and looking to the

supreme example of Christ.

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We, and I don't want to get back into

the issue too much of trying to make

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a judgment as to whether they're saved

or not, because we can't really make

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that judgment when they're young.

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We know that when they're older,

they'll have a crisis of faith,

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hopefully, and they'll say, rather than

taking my parents faith for granted.

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I want to live for the Lord.

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And that's when we know the

change really takes place.

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And the sanctification

works in their heart.

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And the training that we

instilled in them is taking root.

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But you know what?

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We need to restrain that two year

old from running in the road.

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We don't wait till we find

out, oh, they're saved.

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And we put that restriction on a behavior.

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So there's a preventative discipline

too, that's just a normal set of life.

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I think there's also a couple dangers

in discipline, and we see this.

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There's dangers in parenting of being

too lax and being too permissive

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or lenient, which we would call

license, and we talk about that a lot,

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Stephanie: I think it's interesting,

here we have this philosophy introduced

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culturally in the 1940s or 1950s.

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And, for lessening authority.

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And now we're a couple of

generations away from that.

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And we have the highest rates

of anxiety and depression.

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It's ironic to me that they're saying

this is the answer for a secure child.

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When everything around us is

pointing to this culture, really.

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a lack of character and a lack

of healthy emotional well being.

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So I'm just, I'm not seeing

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Betsy: more so than ever.

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And now for those giveaway winners,

the grand prize goes to Sara Birch.

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The next prize goes to Kim Dae Ensberg

and then Haley Lloyd, and Brittany is a

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Jack will be receiving those everyday.

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Before you say tart packs.

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I'll be contacting you ladies

for your shipping information.

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Thank you so much for entering.

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We really appreciate your

wonderful ideas about the episode

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topics you'd like to hear about.

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We'll see you next week for part

three of this gentle parenting series.

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Stephanie: We know you're busy,

Mama, so we are truly grateful you

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joined us for this episode of Again.

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If you're looking for more information

about building your home on the

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foundation of Jesus Christ, head to www.

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EntrustedMinistries.

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com to learn more about our study for

moms, Entrusted with a Child's Heart.

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This scripture saturated study

has blessed families around the

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world, and we want it for you, too.

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Before you go, I want to pray

this benediction over you

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from 2 Thessalonians 1, 11 12.

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We're rooting for you.

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To this end, we always pray for you,

that our God may make you worthy of His

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calling, and may fulfill every resolve

for good and every work of faith by

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His power, so that the name of our Lord

Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in

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Him, according to the grace of our God.

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And the Lord Jesus Christ.

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Amen.

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Until we meet again.

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About the Podcast

Again
Biblical Motherhood Untangled
So much of what we do as mothers is on repeat. Join us to redeem this repetition and untangle from the confusion and overwhelm of parenting. We'll follow the Agains in the Bible to focus on the things that matter most. Let's look up together to embrace a motherhood full of freedom and joy! This podcast is sponsored by Entrusted Ministries.

About your host

Profile picture for Stephanie Hickox

Stephanie Hickox

Stephanie has always delighted in God’s Word and in sharing it with others. Whether it is equipping mothers and leaders through Entrusted with a Child’s Heart, inspiring students when teaching at homeschool co-ops or children’s ministry, or homeschooling her own children, Stephanie’s life mission is to encourage others to follow faithfully and joyfully after Jesus—especially if they hold her favorite job title: mom.

Betsy Corning wrote Entrusted with a Child’s Heart in 1999 in response to the needs she saw in families as she and David counseled young parents just a few years behind them. Entrusted has been taught in hundreds of churches nationwide, been translated into several foreign languages, and has made its way around the world. More recently, Betsy received her Masters in Biblical Studies from The Master’s University and is developing a new Bible Study program called Get the Word Out. Her passion for God’s Word, discipleship, and teaching biblical principles as they apply to family life has remained strong to this day. One of the greatest blessings in Betsy’s life are her three grown children, their spouses, and ten grandchildren that keep her constantly in touch with every age and stage.

Jen Freckman Is an incredible wealth of wisdom. She will tell you a natural remedy for just about anything! She is also a voracious reader and she is just overflowing with quotes and guidance that she's encountered through reading and being faithful. She delights in her children and is a devoted mother. She is also an amazingly creative problem solver! Her solutions to manage her home and guide her children are inspiring.

Emily Deyo is such a treasure. She is an incredible encourager and servant-hearted woman. When she has the mic in front of her, so much value comes out! She is a wordsmith and her heart consistently beats for how she can encourage and serve others. She is a truly loving and attentive mother.

Join Betsy, Emily, Jen, and Stephanie as they share the wisdom only Scripture and on-the-job training can provide to help untangle the joyful calling of motherhood.