#53. Gentle Parenting, Grace-Based Parenting, and Discipline: What does the Bible Actually Say? | Part 1

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They're the joyful agains our children shout on the swings, the

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exhausting agains of cooking and laundry,

and the difficult agains of discipline.

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So much of what we do

as mothers is on repeat.

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So what if we woke up with clarity,

knowing which agains we were called

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to, and went to bed believing we

are faithful in what matters most?

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We believe God's Word is

the key to untangle from the

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confusion and overwhelm we feel.

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Let's look up together to embrace a

motherhood full of freedom and joy.

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Hey mama.

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Welcome back to the again, podcast where

we wholeheartedly believe that the things

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you do over and over matter to God.

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I'm your host, Stephanie Hickox.

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And this is brought to you

by entrusted ministries.

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Today, we're beginning at three

part series on gentle parenting.

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You can't go far and studying

parenting these days with out coming

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across this prevalent theory.

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And if we believe that the things

you do over and over matter to God.

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Then there are some key topics in

parenting that we better make sure

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that we are on the same page about.

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And the only page we want to be

on are the pages of scripture.

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In this series, we'll discuss the

origins of the gentle parenting movement.

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We're also going to define our terms.

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We hear a lot about gray spaced.

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Fear-based.

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Gentleness.

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Discipline.

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What does it all mean?

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And what does God's word

really say about it?

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We're going to talk about why

some books written by believers

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on the topic of discipline are

actually not true to scripture.

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We're also going to clarify Entrusted's

position on grace and discipline.

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And make sure that you know

exactly where we stand.

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I think it's really

important before we begin.

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That I share something called

the four DS that Betsy.

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Explains an entrusted.

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The four DS are defiance,

disobedience, danger, and dishonesty.

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And we are called to be biblically

faithful in those moments and

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faithful to our children and directing

them away from those choices.

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I'm going to say those four DS again.

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Defiance disobedience

danger and dishonesty.

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And I think that's so helpful to

understand as we go into this conversation

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that you understand, when do I discipline?

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also Betsy talks about that.

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There is a wide spectrum of

discipline and the Bible provides

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many tools for us as parents

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that we can use.

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To train our children.

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You will hear the controversial word

spank in this series, but when we

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say discipline, we aren't always.

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Meaning spanking our children.

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We could say so much more and we

probably will in the months to come.

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. If anything's unclear to you.

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Or you're wondering how another part of

scripture matches up with what we say.

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As always, we would love it.

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If you go to our website, fill out a

contact form or email the ministry.

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Stephanie, at E w a C h.com

is your most direct line.

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We are here to serve you and to help

these things to become clear in your mind.

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You know, sometimes in our parenting.

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We realized our children didn't obey and

it wasn't because they didn't want to it's

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because our expectations were unclear.

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And I feel like I have to

apologize to you, the listeners.

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We really want to send these

prizes to some great mamas.

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And we want to hear from you about

what you're wanting from the podcast.

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I hope that I didn't make the

directions a little bit too complicated.

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I am so grateful for those of you

that sent in entries, and you're going

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to get double points for faithfully

following through and all the steps.

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But for those of you that didn't

make the deadline, we're going

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to extend it another week.

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Even if you only sent a topic or two

that you'd like us to do going forward.

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We're going to enter you

in that giveaway again.

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I'm so sorry.

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If it sounded complex, we just want

to hear from you as much as possible.

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Thanks for giving it a shot.

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Let's get to that interview.

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Betsy: This is Betsy and I'm here

with Emily and Steffi and Jen,

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and we're here to talk about a

little bit more difficult topic.

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Maybe it's more confusing and

we just want to settle some of

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that confusion in your mind.

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We want to bring clarity to what the Bible

teaches about some particular issues and

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those issues deal with gentle parenting

or what you might hear called fear based

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parenting or grace based parenting.

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And how do they relate to entrusted?

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Do they agree?

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Are they in opposition to what we teach?

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I think that's helpful.

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Mainly, it's not really

about what we have.

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It's about what the Bible says.

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So what is in a line to what

the biblical teaching says?

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We know the verse in Acts 17.

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11 that says Paul spoke to the people

there and the ones that were the most

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noble minded Received the message with

great eagerness, but then they went home

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and searched their scriptures daily to

see if these things were really accurate.

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And so that's always our standard.

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We compare everything we teach

to God's standard, God's word.

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And if it's in any way

oppositional to that, then we

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know that it's not the truth.

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And that's really the way in Deuteronomy

that God told us to judge his prophets.

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If they say something wrong one time

they were to actually stone that prophet.

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Thank goodness we don't

have to deal with that.

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But we always want to be closely

aligned to the scriptures and speaking

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truth in everything that we teach.

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We take it very seriously.

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But we do realize that in the

last 20 years or so there's

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been a lot of confusion about

what's being said out there.

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And the wheel sometimes gets reinvented

with new buzz phrases or particular

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semantics, and we just want to clear

the air on some of those things.

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I would say that I also Received

my Master's in Biblical Studies at

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the Master's University, which was

a five year course many courses of

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really digging firmly into the Word.

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And I really respect the men

there and the teaching and the

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things that they instilled in my

life, which has really helped me.

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solidify the things that

I teach in Entrusted.

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Well, I think one of the things

I was teaching in Entrusted this

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year, and I had a group of mamas

say what is Gentle Parenting?

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Are we for Gentle Parenting?

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Are we not for Gentle Parenting?

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What is the Gentle Parenting movement?

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Because not only is it out

there in the world, but it's

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certainly infiltrating churches.

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So what would we, how

would we address that?

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What would we say about that?

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I think, first of all, we have to,

we always have to track our sources.

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When I was in school you could read

the bibliography of a paper and

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you would know whether you would

be in alignment with that, that

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professor or that writer's thinking.

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Same thing can be true when we look at

the origin of where things come from.

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And we want the origin of all of our

teaching, of all the things that we do

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to be from the Bible and to be And if

we look back at the origin of gentle

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parenting, we see that really started

from secular psychological sources,

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not biblical sources, but they have

definitely infiltrated church circles and

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christian circles, evangelical circles

even, until we have created what we call

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a synchronistic society of parenting.

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Now that's what the northern

kingdom did in the time of Israel.

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Jeroboam took the Northern

Kingdom and he wanted to create

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sort of a counterfeit system.

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He made a new capital, not Jerusalem.

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He made many places to worship

God rather than the one place that

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God said that he was to worship.

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And he allowed different

types of worship of idols.

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Basically what he was doing is he

was blending the world with and

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culture with what the Lord said.

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And that, you just can't have it.

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That creates an entirely

counterfeit system.

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And so that's really what's been

happening here, and we really

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wanted to address that today.

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Maybe we'll even go back a

little bit further and in another

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secular source in 1946, Dr.

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Benjamin Spock wrote a very controversial

book at the time called the Common

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Sense Book of Baby and Child Care

and it's been called, or at the time

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at least, the most authoritative

And Reliable Guide for Child Care.

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Now, it came with the authority of

a physician, and so young mothers

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completely were taken aback by this.

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They were taught to

discipline their children.

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That was just the norm in society,

not just Christian families.

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And he was saying, let's just

take a little bit more backing

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off easier look at those things.

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Just do what you think

is instinctually best.

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If your child's hungry, feed them.

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If they need to sleep, don't

be so rigid about schedules and

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routines and things like that.

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Just show your child love.

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From that, there was a huge

controversy, but it has pervaded the

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thinking of society to this point

of, is discipline really necessary?

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We hear this all the time.

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Is discipline necessary?

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It's everywhere.

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It's trying to be negated.

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You can't go to your pediatrician or

your coach and they will say, yes,

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we think discipline is a good idea.

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They will all say, they will all back off.

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And why?

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Because of the liability of it.

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And so we can't fear man.

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We have to look at what the

Bible says about discipline.

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I guess the biggest difference with

what we'd say the Gentle Parent Movement

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does, and Entrusted, or what we would

say our true source, the Bible, it

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clearly indicates that discipline

is important in a person's life, and

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as parents, in our children's lives.

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It's important in our

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lives.

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And that is why I wrote Lesson 11

and Entrusted the way that I did.

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For instance Today's society is

getting the belief that obedience

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isn't necessary or that we don't need

to expect obedience from our children.

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And so we wouldn't discipline them.

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A few years ago, we would have

thought, why discipline them?

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Their reasoning was the secular world.

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Why discipline when they're innocent?

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They're not sinful.

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And so we use the back in, I think

it's lesson six, we talk about

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the inherent nature of a child.

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We know that the child has inherited

the sinful nature from Adam and

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therefore it must be disciplined.

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So when we take apart those foundational

premises, we lose our way and we

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start to synchronize Cultural ways

with what makes us feel better,

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perhaps less attacked or confronted

or whatever it is by society because

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we are fearful of people's reactions.

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Going forward,

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I think it's, it reminds me a little

bit of what was happening in Judges.

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Judges, they had no king, so everybody was

doing what was right in their own eyes.

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And what happened?

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They cyclically went through, God

had to raise, when they got to the

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end of themselves where they were

so disobedient to the Lord that He

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chastened them and then they cried

out to the Lord for somebody to save

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them and the Lord sent somebody and

they would repent but then they would

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go through the whole cycle again.

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And why?

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Because there was no king in

Israel and everybody did what

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was right in his own eyes.

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The book starts out with that verse

and it actually, interestingly

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enough, ends up with that verse.

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So

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we know that it is important to have

authority and to live under obedience.

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Live under that authority and obedience.

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It's just the way the whole

world operates Christian or not.

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Stephanie: So

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Betsy: that lesson 11, we start out

talking about what is obedience.

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Are we just saying this

because we're hardcore, or or,

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just hardheaded or whatever.

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But because we're so stringent and

harsh with our kids, not at all.

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We are not when we say gentle parenting,

we want to make the understanding

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that we are gentle parents.

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That's important.

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And we are grace based parents.

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But we do believe that there are

consequences of disobedience.

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The main difference here, the main crux

of the matter besides it not being its

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origin in the truth of God's word, is that

they don't believe in discipline and so

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they

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remove that part of a child's development

so that they are talking to the child

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in a way that uses emotional strategy

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To

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reach their child's feelings and

how they feel about doing things.

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Stephanie: Emily, you had a great example

that you saw on the playground one day.

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Emily: I ever

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parenting, what it was.

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We were at

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the

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when they're sitting out fall out.

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Grabbed the bars

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back

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his mom

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His leg

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was drop to catch the

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slide got his slide.

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But that was had with

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Betsy: And

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I think the point is we can say make

the right choice or are you making

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the right choice but we're following

it up whether whereas this child

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may be just still going his own way.

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He's still in charge of the decision.

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He's not thinking I need

to follow my mom's saying.

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Because, really, the

mom's not saying anything.

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She's not saying you need

to do what I'm saying.

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She's just what are you thinking?

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Is that a good idea or not?

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And it backs off from sort

of the child training.

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I would like to read this definition

that I received from a sermon from John

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MacArthur on God's faithful discipline

on Hebrews 12 and it's so good.

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But the word that's used

in there is paideia.

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It's a Greek word and I'm going to give

you the definition of it in a minute.

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But we go through this in Entrusted

because this is the thing.

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What is God saying in his word?

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This is what he's saying because

he's using this Greek word.

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He's in 4 11.

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The word paideia speaks of whatever

occurs in the life of children wrought

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upon them by their parents to cultivate

their soul, including corrective issues,

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including curbing their passions.

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including hedging them against

the things that are dangerous.

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It's

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not just protection, it's instruction

with a view of producing virtue,

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aiming

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at the Increase of character.

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So it involves correction

and it involves discipline.

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It's not just a emotional

or spiritual exercise.

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Sometimes people spiritualize this

and they say it's not a physical

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discipline, but we know that it

definitely is a physical discipline.

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A physical discipline.

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is restated in the New Testament,

and that is the big chapter on

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it, if we were to read Hebrews 12.

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And we memorize Hebrews 12, 11 as

part of our curriculum, which says,

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All discipline for the moment seems

not to be joyful but sorrowful.

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Yet to those who have been trained

by it, afterwards it yields the

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peaceful fruit of righteousness.

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No mother thinks that it is joyful or

a fun time, but we enter into the pain

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of it with our child, and there is a

certain pain of going over the line.

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Whether it's the natural pain of

the universe that says do not step

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over this cliff because you will

fall far and it will not be good.

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Or even something more simple

as touching a hot burner.

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Learning that I'm never

gonna do that again.

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So the world is set up God has designed

it in a way that has natural consequences

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for us and those consequences are pain The

pain that the parent enters in with the

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child doesn't harm them doesn't hurt them.

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It's not striking their face It's not

hitting them, it's not slapping them.

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For a young child, it

is, it may be a spank.

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And it's interesting because people

will say, Oh, it doesn't say the word

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spank in the Bible, but it certainly,

it doesn't say the word abortion

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either, but it certainly speaks to it.

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And so we understand that and using

these words, which we, Clearly take

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apart and define in this Lesson

11 helps us to understand their

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exact meaning and application.

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Stephanie: I think whenever we

cave to culture, we forfeit God's

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intended blessings, which are so much

greater than the blessings that we

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could have planned for ourselves.

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You might read, Oh, there's research

coming out that says spanking is

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detrimental to a child's mental wellbeing.

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We're using the wrong measuring stick I

am concerned about my child's wellbeing.

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But I want an eternal measuring stick.

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I don't just want them to be well

adjusted and competent children.

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I want them to be children who understand

their need for a savior and requiring

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obedience of them and teaching them where

the line is and where boundaries are.

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Just as Paul says, the law revealed

to us that we need a savior,

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that we are in need of grace.

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When we want our children to to follow

the Lord, to embrace their need for a Holy

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Savior, who is the hero of the story, not

the child, then we need to use the Bible's

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measuring stick on, is this fruitful?

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Is this righteous?

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And we can see lately with

progressive Christianity and the

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absolute fallacies in that theology.

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It's completely contrary to scripture.

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And I heard a story recently about

a mom that was saying, I didn't

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know how to teach my children

about Easter because I, they had

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never been taught about punishment.

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And so I taught them that I

tried to explain that some

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people thought they had sin.

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So Jesus died for the sin that

they thought that they had.

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I was horrified.

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It just, anything that robs Jesus of

his rightful place as our Redeemer

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and our Savior is so completely

errant and contrary to scripture.

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And we have to think are we

falling into these lies and

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these deceptions of culture?

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Or are we looking to God's word

and saying, yes, let's be gentle.

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Yes.

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Let's let the Holy Spirit guide us.

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Yes, let's stop and be calm

and make sure that we are

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intending their future goodness.

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: 00:20:59

And we're saying, this might

be hard right now, but I am

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teaching them where the line is.

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: 00:21:05

That they can be blessed

in the future by obedience.

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And that's going to be required

of them in so many realms of life.

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Scripture says, make no

provision for the flesh.

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And when we set our children up to

listen to their flesh so much, we are

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really doing a disservice to them.

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In Deuteronomy 5, 29, God says,

Oh, that they may fear me and obey

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me, that it would go well for them,

that they may live long in the land.

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And God's heart for us is to obey

him because his commandments are

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for our good and for our blessing.

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: 00:21:37

When we teach a little

child, what do you do?

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You know, We're, also scripture says

folly is bound up in the heart of a child.

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So expect a toddler to be

able to have the wise answers.

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And if we want to go back to

medical research and brain science,

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we can say your frontal lobe is

not fully developed until 25.

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: 00:21:56

You cannot make a healthy

risk assessment right now.

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: 00:21:58

So let me tell you actually

what would be the best choice.

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And let me guide you in goodness.

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: 00:22:05

Of course, listening to your heart.

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: 00:22:07

Of course, caring about your personality

and doing it in love and gentleness.

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: 00:22:11

But you need my guidance.

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: 00:22:13

God provided me as a guide,

as a shepherd to you.

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Betsy: And I think that the whole

idea of the brain development,

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little children need a consistent

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: 00:22:25

quick response that they understand.

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: 00:22:28

And that's an understandable response.

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I was saying a little bit earlier that

the word spank isn't in the Bible.

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: 00:22:33

It's actually an onomatopoeic word,

which means It's the sound is the word.

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: 00:22:40

this is what it sounds like.

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: 00:22:42

It's just a little tap on

their little tushy that stings.

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: 00:22:47

It's painful to them, but

it's not in any way harmful.

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: 00:22:51

And so we understand that this just raises

the ire of so many people, because this

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: 00:22:57

is just so controversial, but we want you

to figure this out for yourself and obey

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: 00:23:03

the Bible according to your convictions

that you set up in understanding

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: 00:23:08

and agreement with your husband.

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: 00:23:10

But know these things, first of

all, discipline speaks of, this is

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: 00:23:15

going back to the sermon that I was

listening to, it said this very well.

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: 00:23:21

Discipline speaks of

training for a good outcome.

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: 00:23:24

Punishment speaks of retribution

and vengeance and wrath.

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: 00:23:29

So we are not invoking wrath

or judgment or retribution

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: 00:23:34

or vengeance on our children.

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: 00:23:36

Their discipline is not

in payment for their sin.

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: 00:23:40

It's correcting their sin nature.

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: 00:23:43

It's correcting their will

and directing it in a way.

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: 00:23:46

Now, some people would say you can't

do this till you know they're a

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: 00:23:49

believer, but then what do you wait till

they're 25 and start training a child?

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: 00:23:55

the Bible says, train up a

child in the way he should go.

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: 00:23:58

And even when he's old, Paul was trained

in so many, the, in the scriptures, and he

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: 00:24:05

was a Pharisee of Pharisees, he would say.

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: 00:24:07

But all that really just

prepared him for the time when

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: 00:24:11

he really would meet the Lord.

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: 00:24:13

And he was able to speak to so many

people because of his former training.

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: 00:24:18

Training does come into before,

we're training them from little.

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: 00:24:23

Even before they're necessarily

saying words or sentences.

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: 00:24:27

But

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: 00:24:27

going

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: 00:24:28

on, Punishment has one purpose,

Discipline has another purpose,

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: 00:24:32

and Punishment from God is eternal.

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: 00:24:35

The purpose of Discipline is to

produce virtue, and Discipline

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: 00:24:40

is only for a temporal season.

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: 00:24:43

In Punishment, God is the judge.

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: 00:24:47

In Discipline, God is the Father.

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: 00:24:50

So many people, and this is true,

we want to parent our children

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: 00:24:54

the way that God parents us.

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: 00:24:56

We really can't fully do that.

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: 00:24:58

But in punishment,

objects are his enemies.

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: 00:25:02

In discipline, objects are his children.

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: 00:25:05

In punishment, condemnation is the goal.

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: 00:25:08

In discipline, righteousness is the goal.

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: 00:25:12

We all need pruning,

sometimes extensive pruning.

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: 00:25:17

But you when you look at your own life You

begin to see that god is correcting you

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: 00:25:21

and you have an understanding that it's

not punishment to your sin in the sense of

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: 00:25:26

final punishment That's not condemnation

In the sense of final condemnation,

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: 00:25:32

but rather that final punishment has

been born by christ That is correction.

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: 00:25:39

Now it is correction This

is not smiting you in wrath.

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: 00:25:43

This is correcting you in love.

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: 00:25:47

Now, before your children become

believers, you are, you're training

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: 00:25:51

them, but it really takes root when

the Holy Spirit enters their hearts

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: 00:25:56

and you are correcting them in love.

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: 00:25:59

And that has its true lived out purpose.

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: 00:26:02

Jen: I think one of the benefits that as

we've heard some of the things in culture

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: 00:26:07

and read the scriptures and studied the

scriptures and then also read and then

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: 00:26:11

taken entrusted, one of the things that

I appreciate about how entrusted handles

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: 00:26:16

some of this is it takes some of these

things that these parenting books and

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: 00:26:20

culture are saying that sound good.

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: 00:26:22

They sound like they're

scripturally based.

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: 00:26:24

They sound Like they're using

scripture, but it's a little confusing.

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: 00:26:30

And is the theology on this the

way the Bible teaches, is this

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: 00:26:34

psychology, is this scripture, what

is this and what does this look like?

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: 00:26:39

And I feel like Entrusted has done a

good job of helping us to understand the

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: 00:26:44

difference between biblical principles.

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: 00:26:46

Convictions and the difference

between that and personal preferences.

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: 00:26:50

And.

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: 00:26:51

Personal convictions.

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: 00:26:53

And it also separates and helps

us understand the difference

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: 00:26:57

between how to parent a toddler

versus how to parent a teenager.

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: 00:27:02

The lying in a toddler discipline is

a different than lying in a teenager.

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: 00:27:07

And not only that, but it also

helps us to discern between

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: 00:27:11

the will and the emotion.

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: 00:27:13

What is a willful disobedience and

where does it fall under emotion?

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: 00:27:17

Or just discern.

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: 00:27:18

Ignorance, like they,

they need training here.

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: 00:27:21

And some of these things that we hear in

culture, they put it all in one bucket

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: 00:27:26

and say, don't ever don't ever say no,

don't ever spank, don't ever give anyone a

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: 00:27:31

discipline in order to change their heart.

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: 00:27:34

No, we know we can't change their heart.

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: 00:27:36

We know that.

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: 00:27:37

And we're not seeking

behavior modification.

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: 00:27:39

We are trying to draw out their hearts and

turn their affections towards the Lord.

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: 00:27:45

But I feel like.

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: 00:27:46

There's needs to be so much more clarity

on what are, let's define our terms here.

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: 00:27:52

And I think that Entrusted has done a

good job of doing that where some of these

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: 00:27:56

other parenting things, the terms are not

defined and it causes so much confusion.

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: 00:28:03

Stephanie: That's a lot to process.

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: 00:28:05

We hope it brought some clarity.

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: 00:28:07

But really may do think, but most

of all, we hope it makes you dig

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: 00:28:10

into God's word to see for yourself.

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: 00:28:12

We'll see you next week for part two.

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: 00:28:15

We know you're busy, Mama, so

we are truly grateful you joined

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: 00:28:18

us for this episode of Again.

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: 00:28:21

If you're looking for more information

about building your home on the

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: 00:28:23

foundation of Jesus Christ, head to www.

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: 00:28:27

EntrustedMinistries.

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: 00:28:30

com to learn more about our study for

moms, Entrusted with a Child's Heart.

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: 00:28:34

This scripture saturated study

has blessed families around the

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: 00:28:38

world, and we want it for you, too.

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: 00:28:40

Before you go, I want to pray

this benediction over you

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: 00:28:44

from 2 Thessalonians 1, 11 12.

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: 00:28:48

We're rooting for you.

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: 00:28:50

To this end, we always pray for you,

that our God may make you worthy of His

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: 00:28:55

calling, and may fulfill every resolve

for good and every work of faith by

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: 00:29:01

His power, so that the name of our Lord

Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in

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: 00:29:06

Him, according to the grace of our God.

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: 00:29:09

And the Lord Jesus Christ.

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: 00:29:12

Amen.

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: 00:29:14

Until we meet again.