#90. Author and Former Influencer Erin Loechner Shares Practical Steps Moms Can Take to Loosen the Hold Technology Has On Their Lives | Part 3

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They're the joyful agains our children.

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Shout on the swings, the exhausting

agains of cooking and laundry and

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the difficult agains of discipline.

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So much of what we do

as mothers is on repeat.

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So what if we woke up with clarity,

knowing which agains we were called to.

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And went to bed believing we are

faithful in what matters most.

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We believe God's word is

the key to untangle from the

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confusion and overwhelm we feel.

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Let's look up together to embrace a

motherhood full of freedom and joy.

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Welcome back to the Again podcast

from Entrusted Ministries.

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I'm your host, Stephanie Hickox, and

today you'll get to listen to part

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three of my interview with Erin Lochner.

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Erin is a former social media influencer

and HDTV star, and she's the author of two

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books Chasing Slow and the Optout Family.

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She's a critical thinker and questioner

pushing back saying everything that

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technology promises to be for your family

is nothing compared to what God intended

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for those face-to-face interactions

between family, friends, and neighbors.

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In this part of the interview,

she shares more of her convictions

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about technology, and you know what?

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You don't have to agree with all of

them, but we certainly wanna challenge

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you to think through the impact that

technology is having on our families.

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I would highly recommend the

opt out family so you can

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further meditate on these ideas.

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I'm also going to link to some other

phenomenal resources in our show notes.

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Some favorites would be the

Tech Wise Family and 12 Ways

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Your Phone is Changing You.

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Let's continue this conversation if the

last week didn't show us the potential

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impact of technology, I don't think

we'll ever receive a wake up call.

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Over the past few days, I've

seen the danger of AI creating

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completely false images.

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I saw a lack of journalistic integrity.

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I saw things being taken out of context

and being misrepresented, and if I

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didn't know more about certain stories.

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I'd probably be swept away with the tide.

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Two.

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I'm concerned about the way that

algorithms are continually bringing

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like-minded opinions before us so

that we don't learn to question

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and we continually hear more and

more of what we think cementing our

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ideas and further creating a divide.

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So If we can learn anything from the

current climate in our world, I'd say

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let's keep the conversation going.

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Let's see people behind views and

learn to know and respect each other

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as being made in the image of God.

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Let's question what's going on around

us and in all things, in an every

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way seek to live lives that glorify

Christ instead of caving to culture.

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So here's part three of that interview

with the lovely Erin Lochner.

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Before we get into the next section and

keep talking about the Optout family, I

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wanted to ask you one more fun question.

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I know you love design and when it meets

function, so do you enjoy completing

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projects regularly or once something is

finished, are you happy to keep it as is?

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Erin: I love your questions.

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These, this is fun.

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You know, I'm pretty

content with what I've got.

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Once, once I've kind of done the

rejiggering in my mind and figured out

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how, how we use our house and how we

use a space, I really do like to keep it

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that way way, but the kids grow and so

I am not at all opposed to rearranging.

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I don't often buy new things.

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I will sometimes thrift out a piece that

just isn't serving its purpose anymore.

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A lot of times when the kids are growing

and they use things for different

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things, you know, there are parts of.

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Rooms that, I mean, I'm thinking of

when they're really young and they

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have that boundless energy and you need

a lot of, like buildable materials.

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We would just use a lot of wood for

them to stack and like plank and

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just kind of be active around that.

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Now they need less so, but

then there are things that stay

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forever, A rope swing in the house.

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Gosh, they've used that for 12 years.

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I think I'm fairly content with how

the space is, but I do really pay

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attention to how we're using it.

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And so if something needs to change, we

just recently swapped our dining room

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for our living room because we were.

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Playing less on the floor than what we

once did when they were really young.

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And so we needed a less

floor space available.

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Now.

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It was more like we're on couches

or we're at tables or whatever.

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And just being open to looking

around the house and seeing how

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can I better use this space?

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Or going into rooms saying, we

haven't really, we don't come in

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here and why don't we come in here?

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And, making those little shifts.

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But I don't have to buy anything new.

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I just move the furniture around.

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I would say the thing that I

change the most is artwork because

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my kids are constantly creating

new artwork and I wanna make

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room for the, their current art.

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And we swap a lot of that pretty

much, multiple times a year, probably

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seasonally, we have our little

nature tray that changes a lot.

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But yeah, other than that, we pretty

much keep it pretty much the same.

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Stephanie: Yeah, that makes

lots of sense for your season.

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The transitions of childhood provide us

with plenty of reasons to switch it up.

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I so agree with you.

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I think I'm always looking at my

house, like how can I make it better?

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How can I make it more functional

for us or more beautiful?

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But I love to use what I have

and it's almost a fun game.

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Maybe as a homeschooler,

we even think about it more

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Erin: yeah, it's true.

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Yeah.

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And I think especially as a homeschooler,

because you're doing everything there.

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It's the laboratory, it's the

school room, it's the kitchen.

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I mean, you're just doing

everything in there.

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We have to be really creative

with the space we have, and it's

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very easy to fall into the trap

that we don't have enough space.

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It's almost never true.

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So, yeah, it's, it's a fun, creative

exercise to really make the most of it.

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Stephanie: In your book, one of the

chapters that was the most thought

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provoking for me was you said,

we need to make a radical mind.

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Shift and break free from the idea

that technology is safer than people.

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And if I'm honest, I really had to pause

and think about it because it is such

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a prevalent lie that we're being fed.

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We do feel the stranger danger, but

if we look at the data, it's so clear

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that technology will be dangerous.

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Of course, we just have those catastrophic

fears in our head, but speak to us a

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little bit more so we can really wrap

our heads around what is true here.

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Erin: Yeah, I did break down kind

of the data and the research, and

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I will just say an, an excellent

resource for this is Lenore s Scani.

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She runs an organization, her co-founder

is Jonathan Hyt, who wrote The Anxious

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Generation excellent book as well.

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But I interviewed Lenore because, you

know, she was dubbed America's Worst

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Mother in, gosh, the early two thousands,

I wanna say, because she had let her young

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son ride the subway alone in New York

City and he was armed with $20 in a map.

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They had practiced and they had done

everything, but he just wanted to, he

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wanted to do it, and he was just dying to

be independent and to try it for himself.

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And she trusted him and

felt that he was ready.

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And they had practiced and prepped

and did the, and um, people just

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thought this was crazy that she was

letting a son, be a son, be a kid.

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And so I think we have, and this was

before social media, so we have just

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kind of, you know, I just can't imagine

what the reaction would be anymore.

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So, you know, a lot of her thesis is

that we're kind of, kind of cutting

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our kids off at the knees if we're not

giving them the thing that they want

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and need, which is independence from us.

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And, um, the ability to learn and

make mistakes and fail a little bit.

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And we want to do that certainly

in a low stakes environment and

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which is generally our neighborhood.

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And yet we have been taught

that our neighborhood is

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the least safe place of all.

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And so we've allowed our kids to instead.

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Play on the iPad in the living room where

we can see them, without the knowledge

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that we have actually less control and,

um, and are giving more of them and

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more access to the world in that regard,

versus just roaming the neighborhood

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until dark like people used to do.

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I really, I ran into this too.

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I think this is just a, a very

general fear that parents have now

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because we have, we all grew up, I

grew up in the eighties with a face

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on the milk carton, you know, and

it, and it was, it was, the child

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kidnapping was the number one problem.

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Or so we were told, you know, who knows

what the science actually was there.

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But, it was a tremendous fear.

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And so I think, uh, we have

that in the back of our head

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and I think it's exasperated.

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And yet if we really challenge that

idea, or if we challenge the idea

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that, I think even the ones that are

sort of brave enough to say yes, go

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run the Go Roam the neighborhood.

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We still give them a phone and we

say, you know, you're only safe

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if you can reach me at all times.

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And I don't love the message

that that sends either.

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And so I remember, you know,

specifically my, my oldest daughter

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has a plant business and she's

had it for, gosh, five years now.

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And she grows tomatoes and peppers and

she sends them around in a little red

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wagon and sells 'em to all the neighbors.

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And, um, she has her own little

homemade fertilizer and all of it.

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And so I remember the moment when she's

you know, mom, I wanna do this by myself.

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Like, love that you're willing to assist

and you're gonna like, walk me door to

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door, but I'm ready to do it by myself.

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And I remember being like, and she

was so young, and I just remember

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thinking, well, gosh you're right.

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I know you can do it by yourself.

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And, but I was nervous and so.

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My husband did the thing that every

dad says, which is like, well, we

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could do the Find my iPhone offer.

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You know, like, we could just, we could

put a little iPhone in her backpack

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and then we could track her.

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And I was like, I don't love

the message in that sense.

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I just I don't want her to believe

that technology will make her safer

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because the skills instead, like,

let's instead look for where are

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the safe houses in our neighborhood?

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Where are all of the neighbors that,

you know, what are all the things that

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you could do in any given scenario?

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What might you encounter

and what's your solve?

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You know?

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And so instead we did that.

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We just, we gave her a pocket knife

and some mangoes and, um, a walkie

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talkie and we just sent her off and

it really did rip the bandaid for us.

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And it, it made me recognize that.

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A lot of times we think our kids need

practice, but really it's us that

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needs practice in these situations.

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We just, I firmly push back on the idea

that tracking our kids is a good idea.

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I think the only thing, the only way

we can trust our kids is to trust our

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kids, and we have to practice doing that.

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And tracking is a direct

ance to that, right?

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It just introduces all of these

other problems that, gosh, you're not

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where you said you would be and where

are you and did something happen?

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And now I have to go chase you down the

neighborhood when really it's like I

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had to take my watch off because we were

gonna like, play a game and it was sweaty.

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I don't know.

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You know, there's just, it's all

of these, fake fears that live in

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our head that they're real fears,

but, but they're exaggerated fears.

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And I think we have to look at

it with a dose of reality and

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recognize that we can either.

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Teach our kids that will be

available to them at all times.

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Or we can teach our kids the one

who will be available to them

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at all times, which is only God.

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We chose the latter and, and we just pray.

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Stephanie: I had the blessing of

interviewing someone from Refuge One

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International, and they're an organization

that is helping prevent trafficking and

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also rescue victims from trafficking.

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And even they said you know, we grew up

With stranger danger, but that's most

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likely where the danger is not anymore.

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She told me it's coming from online

and that it's not going to be

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someone in a park taking our child.

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Most likely it's going to be

someone pursuing them online.

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they even shared that in their own

family, with their own children.

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Even being equipped and educated

with all that they know that they

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were still being targeted and

struggling to not fall into it.

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I'll link that in the show notes,

but I think that's why your book

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is so important to help us rewrite

the script that we're being fed.

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We know there are real dangers out

there, but technology can be a consistent

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danger that we need to be aware of.

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And depending on how much we've

engaged the script might need to

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diligently be rewritten in our minds.

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But it is such a worthy endeavor and

the fact that we get to do this for

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ourselves and our kids at the same time.

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We can really go after it.

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I loved the quote that you

shared in your book, by

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Soles that

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All men make mistakes, but a good

man yields when he knows his course

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is wrong and repairs the evil.

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The only crime is pride.

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That's a beautiful charge for the

parent who feels, how can I put these

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boundaries on my child when I'm not

doing a great job managing technology?

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What is your encouragement for the mom who

knows that her own habits need to adjust?

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Erin: You know, where I started

was I did two things to my phone.

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I turned on all the parental

controls on myself, which you can do.

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They're not just for kids.

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So I took internet off

my phone completely.

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I know some people that delete all of

their apps and then just add backends,

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the one that they think they really need.

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But I just started there just

with sort of a blank slate, just

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what do I really, genuinely need?

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Or what am I just telling

myself that I need, you know?

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But there are many, many boundaries

that you can put in place in terms

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of, you know, I only check my phone

this much, or I put it away, and

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lots of, gamification strategies.

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But honestly, my favorite thing, and I

think the one that works the most is, um.

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Changing your home screen,

like the wallpaper to black

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instead of a family photo.

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You know, I, I teach a lot of

workshops around the country about

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phone usage and a lot of it, it always

starts with us as parents, you know?

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But it's always so funny to me.

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It's the, this is the least talked about,

you know, change that you can make.

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But I think it's the most impactful

because, you know, I, I will, I'll

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stand up and have everybody show me

their phone, and it's all of them.

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You have their family, their families

smiling at the beach or whatever.

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They're all their home screen.

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And so it's no accident, right?

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That Apple wants your very first dopamine

hit to be the moment that you enter

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that experience with the phone, right?

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You click your, you tap your

finger to see what time it is, and

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then you're met with this warm,

happy feeling of your own family.

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These are the people I love.

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This is my whole life on this phone.

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That's on purpose, right?

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They designed that bottle.

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I mean, they can do whatever they

want in the lab, and they chose that.

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And so, take it off, put, make it

a, make it just a black screen and

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send a signal to your brain that

says, this is a foam, not my phone.

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This is a thing.

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It's a box that sits there on the

kitchen counter that I can use to go

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to the dentist or grandma or whatever.

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But it's not my life.

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My life doesn't live here.

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My life lives in my home with me as

people in real time, in real life.

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And so I would honestly start there.

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I would just make that really

simple change and see how

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much it affects your brain.

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Just, it just retrains you in a way

that, I don't think that we even realized

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we were trained in the first place.

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Stephanie: You also talk about

changing your phone to gray scale.

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I did that a couple weeks ago, and my

kids keep saying, mom, change it back.

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It's so boring.

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And I said, exactly,

that's the way I want it.

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And I want my real life to

be more exciting than this.

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And, you know, even I'll be

needing something on Amazon.

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And you go and you look and in gray

scale, it's just not as appealing.

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So I found it's very effective it's just

a quick, easy check to say, am I enjoying

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my real life more than being pulled here?

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I appreciate the really practical

ways that you're giving parents.

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you talked a lot about gamification.

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You mentioned that a moment ago.

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Could you mention a few ideas of

how instead of our kids falling into

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these online games, how we can really

use those strategies in our homes?

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Erin: Yeah.

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Well, it, the idea is just gamification is

actually really, it's rooted in childhood

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psychology, but it's often employed on

our phone to meet tech's goals, you know,

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not our goals as parents or family goals.

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And so just the idea of gamification

is, um, how do you introduce an idea

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that a, will meet your family's goals?

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B will challenge your child in a way that

doesn't, see demotivate them entirely.

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This works for anything, I had a mom that

was really, her goal was to have a tidy

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entryway and she was tired of everybody

kind of throwing their coats and shoes

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off in the middle of the entryway and

just running into the house instead

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of, putting them up and lining them up.

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And so what she did was she just put

she waited for a child to actually hang

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their coat up like they're supposed to.

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I'm sure she reminded

them almost every day.

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And then she put a little,

I think it was a jelly bean.

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I don't actually remember what

candy it was, and the pocket

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of the coat that was hanging.

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And then she waited and said nothing.

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And of course, you know, eventually the

child discovers the little candy and

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announces to the other children, right?

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Like, there's candy in my pocket.

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And and then she just said with

a wink, good things come to

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those who hang up their coats.

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And boom, the habit was formed, right?

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: 00:16:57

And so we do this already

as parents, we really do.

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Um, but the difference is, companies like

Minecraft and Roblox are, they're doing it

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to meet their impact goals, which are how

much time is your kids spending on this?

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How invested are they in this idea?

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How formed are they in this habit?

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And so we as parents are gonna, are

doing this in our house every day.

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And that's the heart of the book.

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It's what is, what is technology doing?

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: 00:17:24

And then what are we doing as parents

that we can actually do better than tech?

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: 00:17:28

Just with our everyday brains, our

everyday resources, our imperfect

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: 00:17:32

responses you know, what are we offering

to our kids that tech never can.

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: 00:17:37

And it's the simplest things, you know,

it's eye contact and warmth and nuance

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: 00:17:41

and questions and context and wonder and

curiosity and being outdoors and all of

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: 00:17:47

these things that kids do deeply need,

but that the phone replaces just by

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: 00:17:50

nature, that the iPad replaces by nature.

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: 00:17:53

So, you know, ga there are a lot of

examples of gamification in the book that

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: 00:17:56

were really fun to kind of crowd source

and see what are other parents doing

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: 00:18:01

that are really creative ways to form

habits that are helpful, and not harmful.

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: 00:18:05

Stephanie: I loved that jelly bean

example that so stood out to me

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: 00:18:09

because I've seen how little things

like that do work in my own home.

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: 00:18:14

I heard from a mom of 14 at a homeschool

conference that every Friday her kids

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: 00:18:19

knew that there was going to be a

drawer check and that she was going

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: 00:18:23

to check and see , how tidy are they?

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: 00:18:25

And they knew that the tidiest drawer

was going to get a Hershey kiss.

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: 00:18:31

I have seen that tip.

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: 00:18:32

There's so much fruit with my kids.

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: 00:18:34

They will all be refolding their laundry.

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: 00:18:37

And it's funny because it's not even,

that's not the standard necessarily that

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: 00:18:43

I'm requiring for them, but they're so

motivated by that little Hershey kiss.

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: 00:18:48

So to stop and think, what values

am I reinforcing in my home?

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: 00:18:53

And I think it, it goes back to

slowing down and inviting the Lord into

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: 00:18:59

our day-to-day, our problem solving

instead of rushing to a device every

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: 00:19:04

time, we need some wisdom to really

ask him to help us problem solve and

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: 00:19:10

Let him be our savior

instead of the search engine.

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: 00:19:12

I, I think is such a.

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: 00:19:14

Sad reality that we're living with.

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: 00:19:17

While we have all of this wisdom

at our fingertips, but the Lord.

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: 00:19:21

He's so personal and he is ready

and available and there for us.

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: 00:19:26

I like the way that you framed, that

our, your children are safest with the

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: 00:19:30

Lord and to look to him even instead of

just to constantly be looking back to us.

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: 00:19:35

Erin: Yes.

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: 00:19:36

Stephanie: I did wanna

tell you a funny story.

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: 00:19:38

My friend, her husband is a pastor, and

after reading your book, he actually had

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: 00:19:43

his congregation get out their phones

and delete TikTok during a sermon.

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: 00:19:48

Erin: Good for him.

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: 00:19:50

Oh, I love it.

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: 00:19:51

, Stephanie: It was eyeopening for

me having not ever been on TikTok.

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: 00:19:56

Erin: It's and it's funny, my

personality is not one that I do

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: 00:19:58

not like to tell people what to do.

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: 00:20:00

I do not like to make

waves or controversy.

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: 00:20:02

And I remember even praying

over the content of this book

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: 00:20:04

and how can I speak boldly?

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: 00:20:07

And I just, I kept, I just kept hearing,

you know, this is not, it's not about,

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: 00:20:14

knowing darkness or, or kind of.

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: 00:20:17

Pointing the finger at dark.

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: 00:20:18

It's about living in the

light of truth, right?

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: 00:20:20

And it is just about the telling the

truth, the kindest way you possibly can.

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: 00:20:25

But this is not an area to tiptoe.

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: 00:20:27

And I just really, I remember God saying

like, you write it down and I'll lift it

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: 00:20:31

up because it's absolutely, going to be

foundational, informational in families.

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: 00:20:37

How they approach tech is going

to be and is now forming your

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: 00:20:42

worldview, your character,

every part of you kids included.

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: 00:20:45

And so it's just a non-negotiable for us.

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: 00:20:48

However and I always say to parents,

you know, I, I don't know that there

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: 00:20:52

is aro a right or a wrong answer

except to not question it at all.

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: 00:20:56

We just have got to question the role that

these devices are playing in our life.

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: 00:21:02

We have to constantly question

it because, you know that these

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: 00:21:05

companies are changing the terms and

conditions without us even knowing it.

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: 00:21:08

So we have to form our own terms and

conditions with the way that we're

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: 00:21:12

going to use and elevate these devices.

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: 00:21:14

You know, we've got our answer

for our family, but it's gonna

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: 00:21:17

vary depending on everyone else.

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: 00:21:18

But I do believe that there's a lot

of hope for the next generation.

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: 00:21:23

I think the research is out.

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: 00:21:24

I think we know what we're working

with, and I think now we get to move

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: 00:21:26

forward from that place of knowledge.

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: 00:21:29

Stephanie: Well said.

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: 00:21:30

Erin: Be bold in this.

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: 00:21:31

I know it's not the popular

message, it's not the easy message.

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: 00:21:35

But I think truly it's one

of the more important ones.

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: 00:21:38

And I think too, I would say the, the

biggest sticking point for a lot of

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: 00:21:42

parents that are sort of thinking about

opting out or are unsure how to go about

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: 00:21:48

it or unsure what kind of effect it might

have on their kids is there are a lot of

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: 00:21:53

ideas in the book, but the probably the

most important is just making sure that

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: 00:21:58

you have a really vibrant social circle

around you that will support the idea of

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: 00:22:04

living differently, whatever that means.

401

: 00:22:05

So, I tell everyone I know, you

know, I am just come over, I have

402

: 00:22:09

an open door policy and I am better

at answering my door than my phone.

403

: 00:22:13

So don't even text first, just come over.

404

: 00:22:16

Like, if, come over if

you need a place to be.

405

: 00:22:19

And I think a lot of times parents

think that, kids are addicted and that

406

: 00:22:25

if they had their choice, they would be

on screens all day long all the time.

407

: 00:22:29

When you talk to kids, and when you

talk to teens especially, you realize,

408

: 00:22:33

gosh, they don't want this life either.

409

: 00:22:35

Teens love coming to our house

because they know they're not

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: 00:22:39

gonna be filmed without consent.

411

: 00:22:41

They know that what they say

is gonna stay in their house.

412

: 00:22:43

They know they're not gonna be

tracked, they're not gonna be

413

: 00:22:46

interrupted by looking at a screen.

414

: 00:22:49

They're not, we're not gonna be checking

our messages while they're talking to us.

415

: 00:22:52

They're gonna see our eyes.

416

: 00:22:53

We're gonna be listening,

we're gonna be engaged.

417

: 00:22:55

They are so starved for that in their

own friend groups and in their own

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: 00:22:58

homes that it's just a welcome thing.

419

: 00:23:01

It's a safe haven place for them.

420

: 00:23:03

And so I think that if, if we're willing

to just ask these questions of the

421

: 00:23:08

people in our immediate life, it becomes

abundantly clear that this isn't really

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: 00:23:12

the life that we are all choosing.

423

: 00:23:14

It's the life that was chosen

for us, and that now we have

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: 00:23:17

to figure out how to undo.

425

: 00:23:18

We get to decide that

and we must decide that.

426

: 00:23:21

And so, don't buy into the

lie that this is what our kids

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: 00:23:25

most want more than anything.

428

: 00:23:27

They just want a life that is engaging,

but they also want a life that is free.

429

: 00:23:31

And that's that's the life this device.

430

: 00:23:34

Promises is freedom, but it's

not actually what is delivered.

431

: 00:23:40

So we just have to be willing to question.

432

: 00:23:43

And you can take a pledge and say, this is

how our family is going to be different.

433

: 00:23:48

So thanks for providing those.

434

: 00:23:50

Erin: Yeah.

435

: 00:23:50

Yeah.

436

: 00:23:50

Stephanie: I'm certainly going to link

to how our listeners can find out more

437

: 00:23:53

but it's just beautiful to see how.

438

: 00:23:56

The seasons that you're going

through as a mother, how those are

439

: 00:23:59

spilling over into the resources

that you're providing for families.

440

: 00:24:03

So thank you so much for your time today.

441

: 00:24:05

It's been such a joy to

get to know you more.

442

: 00:24:08

Erin: Absolutely.

443

: 00:24:09

Thanks for having me.

444

: 00:24:11

Stephanie: Sometimes it just feels

exhausting to be a mom, doesn't it?

445

: 00:24:14

Having to root through what's

biblical and what's not and

446

: 00:24:17

what's best for our families.

447

: 00:24:19

And everyone seems to have a different

idea of how to do it, but what if

448

: 00:24:23

you didn't have to figure it all out?

449

: 00:24:25

Entrusted with a child's heart

is a biblical parenting study

450

: 00:24:28

full of biblical principles.

451

: 00:24:31

And that means it's very little opinion.

452

: 00:24:34

Just imagine someone holding your hand

and saying, this is the way walking it.

453

: 00:24:39

Just like the Lord wants

to come alongside you.

454

: 00:24:41

We want to help you see what's in his

word and point you to the peace of truth.

455

: 00:24:46

We're not saying it's easy and we're not

saying it'll give you all the answers,

456

: 00:24:50

but we are gonna tell you who to look to.

457

: 00:24:53

And the best part, you don't

have to do this for yourself.

458

: 00:24:56

Entrusted was designed for you to

come alongside other moms and work

459

: 00:24:59

out these principles together.

460

: 00:25:01

I've never seen anything like it and

I can't wait for you to experience it.

461

: 00:25:05

If you're interested, head to our

website, Entrusted Ministries dot

462

: 00:25:10

com and go to our studies page.

463

: 00:25:12

Before you go, I want to pray this

benediction over you from Second

464

: 00:25:16

Thessalonians one 11 through 12.

465

: 00:25:20

We're rooting for you to this end.

466

: 00:25:23

We always pray for you that our God

may make you worthy of his calling

467

: 00:25:28

and fulfill every resolve for good.

468

: 00:25:31

And every work of faith by his power

so that the name of our Lord Jesus

469

: 00:25:36

may be glorified in you and you

and Him according to the grace of

470

: 00:25:40

our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

471

: 00:25:44

Amen.

472

: 00:25:45

Until we meet again.