Episode 91

#89. Author and Former Influencer Erin Loechner Explains Why Social Media Deeply Impacts Mothers | Part 2 + Honoring the Life of Charlie Kirk

You're being taught to fear. Christian parenting is difficult enough--but are we doing something to make it even more overwhelming and anxiety-producing?

It was a delight to get to know the lovely Erin Loechner more through this conversation, and we pray it blesses you! Erin has chosen a life of intentionality and prioritizes people over technology. You'll certainly be inspired and challenged by her perspective!

We also take a moment to honor a life of conviction as we grieve the passing of Charlie Kirk.

Did you miss part 1 of our conversation? Listen here.

Find out more about our BRAND NEW videos for COUPLES!!!

Learn more about the Online Entrusted with a Child's Heart Class for Moms: Email stephanie@ewach.com.

Erin's Books:

Chasing Slow

The Opt-Out Family

Transcript
Stephanie:

They're the joyful agains our children.

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Shout on the swings, the exhausting

agains of cooking and laundry and

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the difficult agains of discipline.

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So much of what we do

as mothers is on repeat.

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So what if we woke up with clarity,

knowing which agains we were called to.

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And went to bed believing we are

faithful in what matters most.

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We believe God's word is

the key to untangle from the

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confusion and overwhelm we feel.

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Let's look up together to embrace a

motherhood full of freedom and joy.

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Welcome to the Again podcast, brought

to you by Entrusted Ministries.

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I'm your host, Stephanie Cock.

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Before we get to part two of my interview

with the amazing Aaron Lochner, I want

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to take a moment to honor another life

of conviction, the life of Charlie Kirk.

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If you're familiar with Charlie

and his passion and hope for the

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future of of America, then you

know, he relentlessly lived a life.

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Consistent with biblical and personal

convictions, you don't need to agree

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with everything that he stood for

politically, to acknowledge that he

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was our brother in Christ, and that

he was willing to engage in a kind

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way that elevated logic and reason

to a generation desperate for truth.

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I realized that I'm about to air an

interview with someone warning about

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the dangers of social media, but from my

perspective, Charlie Kirk, represented the

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best of what the internet has to offer.

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For many, he was a faithful source of

reason and hope, and a guide navigating

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controversial and challenging days.

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I don't have many public figures that

I look up to and respect, but Charlie

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Kirk was someone I hoped that my boys

would be like someday, that all of

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this homeschooling would add up, and

that my boys, would become young men

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that are willing to be strong leaders

taking a stand for Jesus Christ.

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Again, political beliefs aside,

Charlie was a man that lived with

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the goal of honoring Jesus Christ.

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So right now, if you're wrestling with

the pain of this world, and perhaps this

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has triggered a fear in you that at any

moment we could be taken, our children

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could be taken, our husbands could be

taken, I want to remind you that we could

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die living lives of mediocrity or even die

dishonoring Christ, or we can live boldly

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proclaiming his truth and his glory.

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Charlie will always have my respect

for his own uncompromising courage.

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Okay.

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Now let's get to part two of my interview

with former influencer Erin Lochner.

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She's the author of Chasing

Slow and the Opt-Out Family.

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Her heart is for families to be more

engaging than technology, social

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media, and all of the algorithms.

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In this interview, we talk about how

we are the first generation to do this.

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And that's why I am so grateful

for her guidance and her critical

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thinking in evaluating how

are all of these technological

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changes affecting me, affecting

my parenting, affecting my family.

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I,

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I have no desire to parade personal

convictions on this podcast, but I do want

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to challenge every believer to evaluate.

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How can I live a life that

glorifies Jesus Christ?

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Our little ones are watching and

it's my goal that they'll look back

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and respect the boundary lines that

I drew for myself and for them.

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But I'm filling the pole in the tug

just as much as you are, so I'm thankful

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to have Aaron as another source of

wisdom modeling a road less traveled.

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Here's part two of that interview,

and next week I'll bring you

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the conclusion of our chat.

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. Stephanie: Before we get more into the

Optout family, could you explain for

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our listeners why you are the perfect

person that got us called to share

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this message and how your journey went

from HGTV and blogging and all of that

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Erin: Oh yeah, yeah, of course.

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I mean, message,

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I.

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Stephanie: I.

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Erin: A social media influencer.

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I had over a million

followers, so this was my job.

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Job, you know, I just, that's, and

it, and I didn't set out that way.

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I was an hgtv.com

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host when they were kind of piloting

the idea of online influence.

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So it was before social media.

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And my husband and I used to live in Los

Angeles, and I was at the time doing a

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lot of magazine writing and home styling

and photographing, you know, different

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different d design, you know, gallery

shows and curating and things like that.

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And so it was kind of knee

deep in the design world.

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And I had a blog again when

um, for a very long time.

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And so, we were moving to the Midwest

because my husband's father became ill.

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We were going to renovate a house, and

this is the short story, the long one

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is in that first book, but, um, we were

gonna be renovating a house, and so we

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ended up renovating it for hdv com and

we did a two year, 24 episode show.

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At the time I remember my editor

kind of saying being a public

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figure and everything, you're gonna

have to like, let people into how,

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like the behind the scenes, right?

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Everybody wants to see like,

what did you have for lunch?

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And, and what's really happening?

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And I remember being like, that's

such an odd concept because we're

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not actually, we're not actually

friends and we're like, that there's

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no context for the way that we live.

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And um, and still it was like,

okay, all right, so that sounds fun.

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And so we would show, you

know, snapshots on Instagram

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there was kind of a shift from

aspiration to inspiration.

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We kind of recognized that

there was nothing really

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beautiful about what was fake.

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And we really swung hard in the

other direction to like, beauty is

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in the authenticity and in the real.

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And, and I think we kind of confused,

you know, I'm saying we collectively,

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anybody that participated in, in social

media culture at that time, whether they

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were consuming or creating, I think we

sort of thought, well if we want to be

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vulnerable, we need to be transparent.

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And I think we really confuse

those terms quite a bit.

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At least I did, you know, I just

thought if I am gonna be honest then I

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should share almost the most of what I.

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I knew in my heart I wasn't

gonna share my kids' faces.

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I wasn't gonna share their names.

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I just was deeply protective over the fact

that they didn't sign up for this life.

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You know, they weren't formed

adults making a career choice here.

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And I just really wanted

to honor and respect that.

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And even as a, a, you know, a

full-time influencer, I just kept them.

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I could, I found that I could talk

about motherhood without talking about

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mothering those specific children.

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And so that's where I lived

for a really long time.

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And then I recognized as my kids aged

that social media was changing in a way,

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the algorithm was becoming something

different than what it used to be when

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we all just shared pictures of our lunch

and, you know, the book catalogs kind of,

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a lot of the why those changes were made

a lot of how those changes were made.

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But I knew they had been made.

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And so I knew, gosh, this social media,

how it exists now is a place I would

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never encourage my children to go.

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And I was pretty active in

mentoring my friend's kids.

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We had kids a little later, and so, all

of our friend group, their kids are in

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high school and they're getting the latest

Snapchat and everything that's happening.

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So I kind of took on the role as

a tech mentor for a lot of kids.

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And so I got, I got a lot of a reality,

you know, a lot of what they're actually

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dealing with when we, you know, we

can look at the statistics all day

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long and when we see our neighbors

going through that, it's really hard.

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And so, so I recognize, you know, here

my kids are little and at some point

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going to ask me the question, well, mom,

why is it that you're on social media

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and you don't recommend that we do it?

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And I've never been the kind of

parent that's like, our rules

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should be, should be different.

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I mean, yes, there are laws, you know,

driving, I can't let you drive and but

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yet I gotta get you to theater rehearsal.

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And so I think I, this didn't seem

like one of those, this did not seem

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like it, it was past the point of

this isn't safe for kids and more like

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this isn't recommended for anyone.

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And I truly believe that.

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I just did not believe it was a

place to mess around in the way

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that the current model and the

way that the algorithm was set up.

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And after all the research that's been

confirmed, and I'm thrilled that the

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research is out there, that really, it is

skewed in such a harmful way for mental,

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physical, every part of our health.

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So long story short, I

deleted all my accounts.

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I left social media.

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I wanted to be able to go first and

model something different for my kids.

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I wanted that when they were going to

choose their own relationship with social

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media or their own, relationship with a

phone or a personal device of any kind.

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I wanted them to be able to point

to people in real life that did it

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differently and had vibrant social lives

and were still fairly normal people.

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And so, um, that's kind of

the path that I went down.

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So again, it was a very lived

message, but we did, my husband and

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I recognized really early on that we

were going to be saying no to personal

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devices in our home, but we needed

to also say yes to something better.

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And so that book, that's

what this book became.

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What do kids actually need?

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What do they want when they're

picking up their phone?

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What are they looking for?

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Do they even want this life or is it

just the life that's offered to them?

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And, a lot of those answers are in

the book and, um, and it's hopeful.

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I think there's a lot of hope

for future for our kids, but we

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definitely chose to just opt out

completely of personal devices.

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Stephanie: Definitely.

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That is so neat that you were

able to model it, that the

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Lord gave you that wisdom.

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Even as your children are so

long young and that you were

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able to offer that to other kids.

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I read recently 12 ways

Your phone is Changing You.

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And the line in there that got me the most

is he said, we're the first generation

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to do this, that we can't call our

mothers or our grandmothers or so many

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of the women sitting in church with us.

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We can't say, what did you do when your

kids were in high school or middle school?

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We really are figuring this

out for ourselves and for

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our kids at the same time.

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And the pace of all of the changes

is so radical and so extreme that

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it feels daunting as a parent.

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And I'm so thankful because I

would've said, if I could describe

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you in any way, I would've said,

you are very gracious, and that's

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just the way that you come across.

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And so when.

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Someone so gracious writes a

book with such a clear value of,

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no, really this isn't worth it.

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I think that's so encouraging to say,

this is really not a gamble you wanna

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make with your family, and I appreciate

that you took a stand for us all and

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that you put the research behind it

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Erin: Thank you.

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Stephanie: and the way that you do

challenge the current logic and the

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current fallacies that we're buying into.

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There was a section that

was so thought provoking.

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I mean it all was, but there

is this idea that smartphones

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teach healthy tech boundaries.

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But you say, what if they actually don't?

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And is this a valid, perspective?

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So if we as a nation wanted to teach

our children better gun control, would

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we allow them access to their own guns?

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How about alcohol, cars, sex pills?

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And you go on and you say, we

don't do this with anything else.

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When we want to teach our kids budgeting,

we don't hand them their own credit card

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and tell them not to spend it after 9:00

PM and you just go on and you explain

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how in so many areas, we don't give our

kids a car to teach them how to drive.

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Well when they're too young for we don't

give them their own medicine cabinets.

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And that was so thought provoking

for me because I feel like many

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parents are saying, I want them

to do it well under my own roof

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because they're gonna do it anyway.

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So can you talk to us a

little bit more about.

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Just how illogical that line of reasoning

really turns out to be in most homes.

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Erin: Yeah, I mean, I think you hit the

nail on the head on that we're the first

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generation to be experimenting this

and, and I feel like, we don't, whenever

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we're making any other decision and we're

looking for the research, right, we would

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never just sign up willingly to a great

experiment where our kids are the ones

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that are going to read consequences.

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I think sometimes we do it

as parents, like, let's.

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You know, we're adults so we can say

like, well let's try this and see

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if it works, or, you know, whatever.

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And I'm not at all saying that

we can, that there is a perfect

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plan or formula for any of this.

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But it is very interesting, and

I don't think by accident that we

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do kind of use these very blanket

they're not excuses, they're reasons.

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They are reasons.

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But when we actually unpack them

and play them out, we can see

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some of the fallacies in them.

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And those reasons were provided from tech.

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You know, there's a very top down

kind of dissemination of information

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that was not, it was not an accident.

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And a lot of those interviews

are in the book with the, I think

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it's interesting that, that we,

the consumers of technology.

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This was the biggest pattern that I

noticed when I talked to, I interviewed

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over 250 resources in and out of

Silicon Valley and decision makers

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all the way down to just, families.

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What are you guys seeing?

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What are you guys noticing?

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Every consumer of tech was so quick

to say, you know, this is just

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a tool, it's neutral, you know,

we can use it for good or bad.

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And then when I would interview the

creator, the creator of the platform,

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the, CEOs of these social media

networks, the people actually doing

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the engineering and the program of

creating them, they were so honest that

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this is not a neutral thing, right?

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We are a business, we have a business

model, and that business model is

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to have you spend as much money

as possible so we can keep going.

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We want your time, we want your

attention, we want your money, we want

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your companionship, we want your trust.

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We want influence.

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And, and so here we are kind of making

excuses for all of these people that

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that are saying, don't make excuses.

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We're in this for the money.

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And that was so eyeopening to me,

and it was eyeopening that, you

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know, 77% of parents believe that

smartphones do more hard than

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good, but 98% of teens have them.

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And I just wanted to know if that could

change and if if there was a way to

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make, one of our family mottos is be

more engaging than the algorithm, right?

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Like, can we as parents, um,

make our homes, places that our

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kids don't want to escape from?

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And I'm not saying they're not gonna

go through seasons of pushing back and

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challenging and pushing boundaries.

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That's all normal.

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That's fine.

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But if our baseline is that.

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We're not going to escape from each other

into separate places in the household.

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Could that just be kind of a basic

human boundary that we're setting

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here, that we are not going that sure

once we decide to incorporate screens,

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let's share those screens and let's

share what happens on those screens.

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You know, are there just some

like pillars of tech usage that

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we can all agree on that don't

involve any sort of screen time?

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Because I don't think that's an accurate

measure of what's healthy and what's not.

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It's how much time are you

spending with this unhealthy thing?

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Could we just maybe look a little bit past

that and get creative with some solutions?

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So I hope that's what the book did.

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But it was certainly fun to

challenge in my own house.

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Stephanie: Yes.

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Yes.

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And I, I do think that there are

more beautiful experiences, or

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watching a, a shared family movie

is different than everyone, like you

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said, on their own device, having, I.

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A separate experience.

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It's not family time, and our culture

is already so busy and pushing

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us so many different directions.

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We have to be very diligent to

protect the family time that we have.

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How do you feel the algorithm affects

mothers, specifically the fear

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aspects of Instagram and algorithms?

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Erin: Oh gosh.

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Well, uh, one of the really

jarring examples, I talk about

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this in the, there's a tech

writer named Fowler who and, um.

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You know, he kind of already had, he

had thought what he was signing up

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for was sort of this beautiful baby

scrapbook of moments where he could

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share it with his friends and family.

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Even it was if it was a private account,

and what happened was that the feed

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just kept sending him all of these

images of deformed babies or really

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tragic accidents happening in his home

and in the homes of other parents.

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And it just fed this parental fear

and anxiety that's already there.

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You know, that's what the,

that's what the algorithm does.

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It's not in inventing a new fear

or a new desire or a new emotion.

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It's capitalizing repeatedly, you

know, talk about, again, again, again,

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there is impact in the repetition

and it's feeding that and empowering

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it, you know, it's making it larger

and making it grow and, and teaching

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it to hunger for more, more, more.

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Of whatever that emotion is.

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And, you know, if we think that

these programmers don't know

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how to tap into the human spirit

and psyche, we're so very wrong.

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You know, they're psychology experts.

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I think what the, what the

algorithm does is simply takes

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that, that deep rooted fear of am

I not doing enough for my child?

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And we, they will know, you know,

um, we can now download our data and

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access exactly what it's feeding us.

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And it's so interesting how it starts,

as a very wide variety of generally

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negative, skewed emotion, right?

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And then it just gets really

hyper-focused on one thing.

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You know, it's, it's, I have learned, I'm

a machine and I have learned your thing.

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What is your thing that is

going to get you on this device

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and keep you on this device?

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And for a lot of parents,

it is, it is anxiety.

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It is this fear that if I am not on

top of the news and the latest research

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of parenting even something silly as

here's a script, here's a parenting

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script to talk to your children better.

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If I can keep that parent falling

asleep with the knowledge that they

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could have spoken to their child better

that day and didn't, and think that

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they're armed the next day for something

better, well now I'm the source that

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they're going to for that better thing,

rather than a more healthy source.

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That does offer context and it does

offer nuance or I don't know even

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the word of God that is absolutely

inspired and non-changing and useful

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for, helpful in correcting and rebuking

and you know, some of the like it's.

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Algorithm wants to be the source.

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And yet we have a better

source available to us, and so

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let's look to source instead.

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Stephanie: Amen.

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So well said I think for us,

we've never parented without

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all of this use of technology.

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I think we don't realize how much

we're being fed the anxious thoughts

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and they would be there already, but

you're right, they're being capitalized.

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And I, you even share an example

about how rare it is for a child

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to drown, and yet how often we're

seeing that come across our screens.

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And instead of being irrational,

responsible adult, we are being fed a lie

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that we have to be hypervigilant and then

we're not even enjoying it with them.

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And I, I think it is robbing so much

of the joy with all of the sphere.

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Erin: Yes it is.

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And, I mean, gosh, it, and it, and

it causes us to really forget the

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tools we already have at our disposal

because we're not practicing those.

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We're just constantly in this, um,

state of, of reception, in this

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state of receiving more and consuming

more information that's new to us.

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And, you know, I

experienced this firsthand.

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I don't love going to

the pool with my kids.

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I'm scared and I was a lifeguard.

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I was a competitive swimmer my whole life.

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I know how, I know how to

save children from drowning.

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And yet you see that and, and you

feel it on this visceral level

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and you think, gosh, if I just

close my eyes for one second.

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And, i'm not saying that that's not

a reality for people, but when we're

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showed that constantly or whatever

that thing is for us it could be,

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you know, fear of strangers or,

um, any kind of child abduction in

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the neighborhood will keep you from

letting your kid run the neighborhood.

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Or, um, gosh, I had a friend who talked

about she was shown all of these accidents

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that were happening in nature, like

just kids in trees and, that was the

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thing that her feed had all the time.

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And so she was scared to have

her kids go out in the forest

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with her even and explore.

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And I think, gosh, that's so real.

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That is so real.

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It is a scary job to be

responsible for someone else.

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And we have to continually

remind ourselves that

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we're, our kids aren't ours.

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We're, we're here to steward them.

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Their guts kids, and and, you know, we

take care of them the best that we can.

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We do.

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And we don't need to fill our mind with

the worst case scenario at all times.

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It's not going to make us more vigilant.

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It's gonna make us more scared.

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I.

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Stephanie: Absolutely.

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And you're right, there is such an

element of control and taking on

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a layer that the Lord never meant

to put on a mother's shoulders.

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I wanna make a couple really important

announcements first of all, we have

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long intended to record videos for

couples, and we did it this summer.

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We created Entrusted with the

child's heart videos for couples.

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We, of course, have our video series

for moms Entrusted with the child's

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heart, and those are in depth

comprehensive videos that are phenomenal,

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but these couples videos serve as

great recaps to the couples book.

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And guess what?

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We feel called to make it

completely free for you right now.

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To watch these videos, all you need to

do is order the couple's book for $20

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because we want you to have that to

look back on and to read along with it.

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and we'll give you access

to those streaming codes so

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you can watch all 17 videos.

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We pray that this brings mom and

dads together, even if they're

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tired and overwhelmed, and that

it brings unity in your home.

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I'll link to our website

in the show notes.

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I'd also like to announce

an important opportunity.

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Perhaps you've been listening to the

podcast and thinking, I would love to take

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and trusted with the child's heart, but

my church hasn't offered it at a time.

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I can take it.

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Or perhaps your church hasn't

been able to offer it yet.

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We want to minister to you, whether you're

near or far, or we're gonna make a way

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because we're having another online group.

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This would consist of you watching the

videos on your own time and then coming

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together with a group of moms from

across the country in an online format.

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I'll lead it and we'll discuss how

our homes can be transformed for the

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glory of God through the principles

Betsy teaches in the videos.

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We will get real, we'll go deep,

we'll talk practical strategies, and

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it'll all be centered on scripture.

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If you're interested in that

option, let's talk details.

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Email me@stephanieatewok.com.

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That's S-T-E-P-H-A-N-I e@ewh.com.

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I'm looking forward to meeting you,

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we know you're busy, mama.

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So we are truly grateful you joined us for

this episode of again, if you're looking

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for more information about building your

home on the foundation of Jesus Christ,

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head to www dot Entrusted Ministries

dot com to learn more about our study

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for moms Entrusted with a child's Heart.

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This scripture saturated study

has blessed families around the

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world, and we want it for you too.

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Before you go, I want to pray this

benediction over you from Second

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Thessalonians one 11 through 12.

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We're rooting for you to this end.

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We always pray for you that our God

may make you worthy of his calling

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and fulfill every resolve for good.

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And every work of faith by his power

so that the name of our Lord Jesus

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may be glorified in you and you

and Him according to the grace of

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our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

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Amen.

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Until we meet again.

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About the Podcast

Show artwork for The Again Podcast on Christian Parenting: Redeeming the Repetition of Biblical Motherhood
The Again Podcast on Christian Parenting: Redeeming the Repetition of Biblical Motherhood
Christian Parenting, Biblical Motherhood, Faith, Family

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About your host

Profile picture for Stephanie Hickox

Stephanie Hickox

Stephanie has always delighted in God’s Word and in sharing it with others. Whether it is equipping mothers and leaders through Entrusted with a Child’s Heart, inspiring students when teaching at homeschool co-ops or children’s ministry, or homeschooling her own children, Stephanie’s life mission is to encourage others to follow faithfully and joyfully after Jesus—especially if they hold her favorite job title: mom.

Betsy Corning wrote Entrusted with a Child’s Heart in 1999 in response to the needs she saw in families as she and David counseled young parents just a few years behind them. Entrusted has been taught in hundreds of churches nationwide, been translated into several foreign languages, and has made its way around the world. More recently, Betsy received her Masters in Biblical Studies from The Master’s University and is developing a new Bible Study program called Get the Word Out. Her passion for God’s Word, discipleship, and teaching biblical principles as they apply to family life has remained strong to this day. One of the greatest blessings in Betsy’s life are her three grown children, their spouses, and ten grandchildren that keep her constantly in touch with every age and stage.

Jen Freckman Is an incredible wealth of wisdom. She will tell you a natural remedy for just about anything! She is also a voracious reader and she is just overflowing with quotes and guidance that she's encountered through reading and being faithful. She delights in her children and is a devoted mother. She is also an amazingly creative problem solver! Her solutions to manage her home and guide her children are inspiring.

Emily Deyo is such a treasure. She is an incredible encourager and servant-hearted woman. When she has the mic in front of her, so much value comes out! She is a wordsmith and her heart consistently beats for how she can encourage and serve others. She is a truly loving and attentive mother.

Join Betsy, Emily, Jen, and Stephanie as they share the wisdom only Scripture and on-the-job training can provide to help untangle the joyful calling of motherhood.