Episode 12

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Published on:

25th Oct 2023

Untangling Our Partnership with God (Part 2): Understanding the Sin Nature and the Need for a Savior

Join Betsy, Emily, Jen, and Steph as they discuss how a correct perspective of sin lays the foundation for Christian parenting and the need for salvation. Do children need to be directed, distracted, or disciplined? These important distinctions are incredibly countercultural, so mothers need to be discerning. Listen to make sure Scripture is the foundation, rather than the world. This episode corresponds with Lesson 7 (The Inherent Nature of a Child) of Entrusted with a Child's Heart, a biblical study in family life written by Betsy Corning of Entrusted Ministries.

Scripture Mentioned:

Romans 5:12

Transcript
Speaker:

They're the joyful agains our children

shout on the swings, the exhausting

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agains of cooking and laundry, and

the difficult agains of discipline.

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So much of what we do

as mothers is on repeat.

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So what if we woke up with clarity,

knowing which agains we were called

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to, and went to bed believing we

are faithful in what matters most?

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We believe God's Word is

the key to untangle from the

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confusion and overwhelm we feel.

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Let's look up together to embrace a

motherhood full of freedom and joy.

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Thanks for joining us

for the again, podcast.

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This is brought to you by

entrusted ministries and I'm your

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host, Stephanie Hickox today.

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I am joined by the wonderful Jen

Frackman Emily deal and Betsy Courtney.

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This episode will connect with lesson

seven of entrusted with the child's

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heart and the inherent nature of a child.

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We have all three of these amazing

women, because we are delving

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into a theologically deep topic.

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Does it really matter if we believe our

children are born with a sin nature, or if

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we believe that they're born innocent and

being affected by the world around them.

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We truly need to understand this

as mothers and we need to know

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what the Bible says about it.

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So that's our topic of this

untangled episode today.

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This is the second half of our

conversation on lesson seven.

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We chose to break it up

into two parts because this

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episode is rich with theology.

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We think it's important to meditate upon

what it means for our lives and not just

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rush through, to consume more information.

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I can humbly admit to you.

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That I needed.

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A reminder.

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Of part one and the Lord.

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Truly made the evident to

me that in this past week.

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If you didn't get a chance to listen to

it, I would recommend you start there

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and then continue with this episode.

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Before we continue with a

second half of our conversation.

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I wanted to tell you a little

bit more about what's headed

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your way in the months to come.

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Pretty soon.

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We're going to take a break

from the entangled series that

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corresponds with the interest with

a child's heart lesson series.

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We're going to have several episodes

that share our Thanksgiving,

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Christmas and new year's traditions.

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Or evening going to talk about the talk.

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We'll also be sharing natural solutions.

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And answering questions, like what

do you do if it's a Friday night?

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All the stores are closed and

your child has an ear infection.

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Is there anything in your house

that you can do to ease their pain?

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And even promote healing.

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What natural beauty solutions are there

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And What can we use to clean our homes?

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That is safe and effective.

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Jen Frackman is a wealth of

information on these solutions.

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And she'll guide us and the

process of caring for our children

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and ourselves in practical ways.

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And perhaps she'll even be willing

to admit to you that she wants,

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recommended that I take my mouth shut.

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And you can find out.

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If that was a natural remedy and

what it would be beneficial for.

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So now we're going to start that

second half of our conversation

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on the inherent nature of a child.

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The first half regarding.

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Our partnership with God.

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Showed that God saves and sanctifies

and we Edify and evangelize.

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And i'm just going to include the very end

of that conversation because i think it

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was such an important word for all of us

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Stephanie: Aunt Betsy, could you offer

some encouragement to the moms who might

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be listening and thinking, I didn't

know about this when they were babies.

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I didn't know about it

when they were toddlers.

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I came to faith later, or maybe

I just didn't understand my role.

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Is it too late for me train them?

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Jen: Hmm.

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Betsy: It is never, ever too late.

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God is the God of hope.

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And even if you raised a child who

is 25 and absolutely not walking

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with the Lord, there's still hope.

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I have a chapter, chapter 13.

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A mother never gives up, never

gives up on her children.

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Always prays, always loves,

but we also don't condone.

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We don't encourage.

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We are always there with open

arms and should they, like

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the prodigal son, return.

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But you know, I've had a lot of

moms say, Oh my, I've got a 15

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year old I just took entrusted.

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And, you know, I feel like we

never, set this foundation.

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Well, sometimes you just need to sit

down with the family and say, we're

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going to have a family meeting because

things are going to change a little bit

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in our, in our home, and we're going to

start living by biblical convictions.

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And then we go way back and we talk

about what those are and particular

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family standards for their protection.

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And it can be, harder on a child that's

older and used to having a lot of freedom.

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But that's not necessarily the

case, it might be that they just

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came to faith and they just are

learning how to do things biblically.

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But I would say that for myself when I

had my first child, I was pretty green

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and I give entrusted to mothers as a gift.

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So they are way ahead of

where I was in my life.

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And I would say that even with our oldest,

we went through a lot of challenges and

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struggles, but those are the things that

helped me be able to encourage women in.

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In big struggles, in

big struggles in life.

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that's why I say, I wrote

Entrusted to encourage moms.

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And I was so privileged to be around such

godly women in my early years of marriage.

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And they helped me immensely.

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And I feel like it's a luxury

for women to have that.

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So if Entrusted can be that for

somebody, if it can be that community

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of encouragement, and I tell you

that if you're struggling and

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you're thinking that certain thing,

so are many, many other women.

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And so when we get together as

a group, we can encourage each

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other and we can, you know, make

some mid course corrections too.

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And one of the biggest things

that I say is tenderness and

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connection with your kids.

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We're not going to suddenly be a

controlling parent because it's

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really not about controlling behavior.

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It's really about getting a hold of

their heart where they surrender their

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heart and they want to obey the Lord.

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And that's the process that we go through,

through several of these chapters.

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I would certainly want moms to be hopeful.

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Stephanie: we also want to talk

about the inherent nature of a child,

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and this is incredibly counter

cultural, we want to make sure

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that we have a biblical perspective

of our children's fallen nature.

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Betsy: You're saying it's

countercultural, and it is, because

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most of culture believes that children

are innocent and they're born innocent.

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And if we, as biblical Christians,

believe, no, they are born with a

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sin nature inherited through Adam.

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That is right there,

just a complete opposite

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presupposition about a person.

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So if you have a child, and you believe

they're born innocent, and they do

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something that's Disobedient, maybe

you wouldn't even use that word.

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See, that's the word that a mother

who sees a Christian mother who

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believes they have inherited sin

nature, they would say that is a a

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demonstration, an act of their will.

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In disobedience and that would require

some sort of discipline, whereas the

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person that doesn't believe that they

have a sin nature believes that they're

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innocent, then what are they correcting?

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So they won't correct with

discipline, instead they will use

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instruction, most likely instruction.

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Let's just talk about this

and how do you feel about it?

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So there might be some emotional thing and

then there's no redirecting of the will.

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And the other main thing that

causes a big rift is if we as

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Christians believe in creation.

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And if a person doesn't believe in

creation, they don't believe in the

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Genesis story of creation and that

Adam was created and Eve was created.

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And I was just thinking about this.

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The Lord had to only make two people

because if he made four people

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or six people, then some of them

wouldn't have had an inherited sin

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nature, but God designed it that way.

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So none of us escapes that.

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And because of that, if we don't believe

that, then we cannot even believe in

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salvation because Romans tells us that

just as sin entered through one man.

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The gift of salvation, the

rescue of mankind comes through

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one man, one sinless man.

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And it could only come through

one sinless man, Jesus.

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I could read this verse right here

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and this would be Romans 5, 12.

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Therefore, just as through

one man, sin entered into the

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world and death through sin.

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And so death spread to all

men because all sinned.

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And then Romans 3.

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10 says there is none

righteous, not even one.

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So that tells us that it actually

has spread to all people.

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And then the next one is Romans 5.

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for if by the transgression of one.

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Death reigned through the one, that

being Adam, much more those who

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receive the abundance of grace and

the gift of righteousness will reign

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in life through the one Jesus Christ.

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So then, as through one transgression

there resulted condemnation to

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all men, Even through one act

of righteousness, there resulted

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justification of life to all men.

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And this is really important for us

to understand because we can't really

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understand the gospel if we don't

understand that first part of Genesis.

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In which Adam and Eve disobeyed and they

fell and we all inherited that sin nature.

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Emily: That's so good.

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I was reading.

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Actually, I was reading through Genesis

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today.

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Stephanie: All of it.

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Emily: again.

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The whole thing was no big

deal just this afternoon.

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Stephanie: Yeah.

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Emily.

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Just in her chair.

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Sorry.

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Emily: It's all in a day's work.

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No, I was just reading

the first few chapters.

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I wanted to just recount how I was.

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Thinking on this, and I wanted to hear the

tone in which God spoke to them, to Adam

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and Eve, when they had sinned, because

I thought, we parent little sinners

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every day, and I just wanted to hear, to

read the tone in And his communication

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with Adam and Eve when they had sinned.

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And you read and it's, there's this

great intentionality and creation.

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And just so much purpose in

everything the Lord does.

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And then you read where they're eating,

they eat of the fruit and they hide.

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And it's like a parent to a child.

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Come out.

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And you have sinned and you have done

wrong and it's not comical in any way,

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but it is because you see how the Lord is

communicating with them and they're acting

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so childlike and you see yourself in, in

that communication with your own children.

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When you had talked about Genesis and

beginning, I just was reminded that God.

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God communicates with us in a way.

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And we communicate with our children

when they sin, because inherent nature.

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And so along those lines, as we're

talking about sin and just, what all

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that entails as we've talked with our

children, older, we, as we're going over

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just, we want to make sure they first

know what the definition of sin is what

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is sin and where does it come from?

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Going back to Genesis we talked

to them as they get older and of

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course in doses, it's increased as

they've gotten older, but the reality

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of sin and where that can lead.

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and then and then we talk to them about

what is the big problem with what specific

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sin and what does that mean to you and

what could that consequence be to you?

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And there's so much opportunity for,

I say all of that to say, there's

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so much opportunity to talk with our

children about sin and where it leads,

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no matter the age or stage they're in.

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Jen: I find it hard to understand

how anyone would think that we

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aren't born with a sinful nature.

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I just think I did not need to

teach them to throw a tantrum

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or to, whine or complain.

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As the adult in.

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the home, I do not whine when

I don't get my way or I don't.

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Kick my legs on the ground

in the grocery store.

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I've not taught them that.

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And so I just, I struggle sometimes

with really how, I don't understand how

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sometimes that can become a cross as

we're not born with a sinful nature.

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Betsy: Mhm.

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Jen: I, even as my own self waking up

every single day, I have a sinful nature.

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I know my I, apart from.

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me with his Holy Spirit, like

I'm going to sin against them

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every day, it's an interesting

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perspective

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to

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understand.

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Stephanie: Right.

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Why are self help books

always, bestsellers?

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Because people are fallen and

we haven't figured it out yet.

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We're still trying to search for

these answers, and if we believe we

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are, then Jesus gets all the glory.

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And also there is a solution, but

if we believe we weren't born with

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a fallen nature, well all you have

to do is, turn on the news as you

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were saying, Jen, I can invite them

over to my house, you'll see it.

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It just feels so evident and there's

no hope if we don't believe that

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Christ has redeemed our sinful

nature, that there is a solution

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Betsy: no hope of salvation if

you don't believe you've sinned

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and you need to be rescued.

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So it's really important if, you're doing

children a travesty if you help them think

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they're innocent, they're born innocent.

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something in God's mercy

that he if a child dies.

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They're not held as culpable or he

will receive them into heaven up to a

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particular age and we can look at a lot

of examples in the Bible of that, but

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I guess the biggest one that I think

of is, Of course, King David, when he

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sinned with Bathsheba, they had a son

and the son was not doing well, lived

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for about a week and David was beside

himself, on his face, on the floor,

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praying that God would save the child.

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And the child died and the servants

just were beside themselves

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thinking now he will do himself

harm because the child has died.

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He was so upset and distraught

while he still was living.

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What's going to happen?

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And, but David got up, got dressed and

ate and they were shocked and said, how is

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this possible that while he was alive, you

were distraught, but now that he's Died.

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You seem to be okay.

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And he said because I will

see him again in heaven.

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He didn't say it exactly like that,

but that is what the meaning is.

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But then later in his life,

he has a son, one of his sons.

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He had several absalon who decided to

try when David was near the end of his

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tried to take over the kingdom tried to.

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the throne from his father, he rebelled

and he was killed in the battle.

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In fact, it was so much of the battle

was in a force that more people died

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in the forest because of the conditions

than they did in actual battle.

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And his son was caught in a tree

by his hair in the crook of a tree.

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And the.

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Commander of the Army who

was told not to harm him.

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David told him, do not harm my son.

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Bring him back alive.

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But Joab killed him and had other men

also strike him with a sword and pierce

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him through so that he was definitely

gone and, David was inconsolable over

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his son, so how can this be that he

would arise and eat and be okay knowing

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that his child would be in heaven with

him, but when his older son was killed?

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That he was inconsolable and

he continually was saying, Oh

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Absalom, Oh, would it, or that

it were me instead of you?

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And why was he so inconsolable?

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Because he knew that Absalom had a

rebellious heart and that he was not

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assured that he would see him in eternity.

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didn't have that confidence.

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Of course, we never know, But it

tells us in the Bible that he was

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definitely rebellious against the Lord.

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So

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That was the, that was why

David had that response.

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I comforting to know that if we have young

children, that the Lord, in his mercy,

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receives them into heaven.

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Jen: Very.

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Emily: Yes.

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Stephanie: hmm.

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Emily: That's such a good word.

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Jen: Yeah.

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I had never really thought of

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Stephanie: hmm.

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Jen: I've heard both of those

stories many times, read many of

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that, and hearing you say it like

that is like, Oh, that's so true.

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The weight of him knowing

that he had a rebellious heart

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because there's no joy and no peace

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in knowing you will one day

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See them

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again.

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Yeah.

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Emily: And it was total loss of hope.

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As long as he was alive,

there was still hope

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Of coming to the Lord,

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Jen: There's there's two stories from

the book by Devoted by Tim Chelley's,

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and One is about a mom who prayed

unceasingly for her son and it's

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actually A fabulous book, but the son

is Christopher Yann, is that how you

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U A N.

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Okay.

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And his mother.

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I'm just going to read a portion.

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It says little did he know that

Angela had been praying for years.

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She had been earnestly pleading

with God to save her son.

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She had converted an unused

shower into the home.

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in the home to a prayer room and

spent so many hours praying and

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studying her Bible each morning that

her knees became hard and calloused.

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She committed every Monday to

prayer and fasting and once even

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fasted for 38, nine days straight.

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She enlisted hundreds of her friends

to join her in interceding for her

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while Christopher was partying.

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She was praying in particular,

Angela prayed that in some way,

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and for some reason, Christopher's

friends would desert him.

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And she goes, it just goes on

to say how they did desert him.

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And when they did desert him, that

he called his mom and she came

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and talked to him about the Lord.

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But the part that gets me is

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her earnest, her earnestness in

praying, but also that she enlisted

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hundreds of her friends to join

her in interceding for her son.

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Oh, I pray that if ever I'm in that

situation, that I would humble myself and

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care more about my child's salvation and

heart than I would about the reputation

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or That I wouldn't want to keep that

close and just be ashamed, but that

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I would say, Oh, Lord, don't care.

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Who knows?

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This child needs you.

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And I think the heart of a mother

who cares more about the spiritual

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wellbeing of the child, caring what other

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people think is so strong

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and so powerful.

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Stephanie: it's evidence of what we were

talking about at the beginning, that she

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understands it's God's role, because if

she believed it was so much on her, she

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would hide in shame, perhaps, over it.

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But because she understands God's

drawing him, this is God's role

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to save him, let's go before him.

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I think that book is so encouraging

because it shows so many examples.

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Of faithful mothers, but in

radically different situations.

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And you can see how God

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uses each of

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them.

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Whether their children are grown or

young, their husbands are pastors

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or husbands weren't believers I

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was so encouraging

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Jen: Yeah.

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And it just goes to show that

there is no perfect formula.

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There is no cookie cutter, that

God gives us truths and and ways.

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And I'm so thankful for Entrusted,

the ways that, Betsy, that you've

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given us practical tools that are

very biblically sound to be able

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to use and to train up our child.

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Because sometimes we, as moms,

we just lost, like we don't,

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I don't know what to do.

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And so, yes, we pray.

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Fast for them.

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We plead for the Lord, but you've

also given us tools, which is

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so life giving and helpful.

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There's one other mom in

here, Charles Spurgeon's mom.

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And at one point she pleaded with God to

extend his saving mercy to her children.

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Charles remembered that on one

occasion she prayed in this way.

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Now, Lord, if my children go on in their

sins, it from ignorance that they perish.

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And my soul must bear a swift witness

against them at the day of judgment,

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if they lay not hold of Christ.

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The thought of his own mother

bearing witness against him pierced

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his soul and stirred his heart.

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And I found that so interesting that,

oh, that our children would know.

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we would bear witness against them,

that we did, we did everything we

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could to tell you about the Lord.

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And it's in the end, it's ultimately.

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Your decision and the Lord working

in your heart to change you, to

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be able to unscale your eyes,

to see and to soften your heart,

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to be able to accept

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him.

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Betsy: Jen, could you mention the title of

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that book again and the

author so people who might be

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interested could check into it?

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Jen: Yes.

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It's

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Devoted, Great Men and Their

Godly Moms by Tim Chalice.

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Betsy: you.

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Emily: I think that's a sign because you.

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mentioned it last week stuff,

and you're mentioning today, Jen.

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I'm ordering this book,

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Jen: Oh, it's good.

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Betsy: always

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on the hunt for a really good one, right?

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Even though

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I have a stack to read.

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Jen: Yeah.

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The verse for this lesson

The Hebrews 12, 11.

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All discipline for the moment seems

not to be joyful, but sorrowful,

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yet to those who have been trained

by it afterwards, it yields the

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peaceful fruit of righteousness.

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And I think

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There are all of the scriptures

that Betsy picked out for us to

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memorize as moms in this study.

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All of them are so pertinent and

so helpful and they come to my mind

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very odd times right when I need

them, and I'm so thankful for them.

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But this one is There is something special

about this verse, and I, I feel like it

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ties in so much with some of the other

things when you're training that child.

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There's just, this verse is so powerful.

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All discipline for the moment

seems not to be joyful.

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That is the worst part of parenting.

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Disciplining your child is

the worst part of parenting.

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I don't enjoy that.

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I don't like seeing their hearts

not being submitted to the Lord,

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and I don't like Having to follow

through and the consistency of it.

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It's the hardest, worst part.

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It's sorrowful.

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Yes.

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That's what It says.

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Yet to those who have been

trained by it afterwards.

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It yields the peaceful fruit of

righteousness, but we don't get that

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peaceful fruit of righteousness until

after they have been trained by it until

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their heart has given over and said

you're right and I want to change and and

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I need to change and the Lord works in

their heart it's been so helpful There's

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a verse in Romans Romans 12 18 says so

far as it depends on you live peaceably

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with all and then James 3 13 18 says,

Who is wise and understanding among you?

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By his good conduct let him show

his works in the meekness of wisdom.

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If you have bitter jealousy and

selfish ambition in your hearts, do

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not boast and be false to the truth.

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This is not the wisdom that

comes from above, but is

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earthly, unspiritual, demonic.

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For where jealousy and selfish

ambition exist, there will be disorder.

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And every vile practice, but the wisdom

from a goddess first from above is

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first pure, then peaceable, gentle,

open to reason, full of mercy and

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good fruits, impartial and sincere.

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And a harvest of righteousness.

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There's that same word, and a

harvest of righteousness is sown

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in peace by those who make peace.

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And I just think as a mom, that is so

powerful because as I'm disciplining

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this child and Pleading with the Lord

to change their hearts and I'm turning

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their affections and their hearts

towards the Lord once again and being

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consistent and I'm hoping and praying

for that peaceful fruit of righteousness.

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When I know what righteousness is, that

a harvest of righteousness is sown and

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pieced by those who make peace and I

looked up the definition of righteousness

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and it's a devotion to a sinless

life, conformity and purity of heart.

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Amen.

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I just thought, Oh, I want that

for them more than I do the peace.

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Like I want peace in our home and I

do want the peace of not having to

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constantly discipline them because

they actually have been trained by it.

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But I want most of all for

them to live a righteous life.

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I want their hearts to be filled

with that righteousness, that

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their devotion to a sinless life.

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That's what we're looking for.

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And I find that, just that.

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The inherent nature of a child is so bent

on sinning and yet all discipline working

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through in that sinful nature is how

the Lord works our hearts relationship

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with him and how he We are, if we are

trained by it, we get the righteousness

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any day.

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Betsy: Yes, would you

repeat the definition

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that you came up

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with for

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righteousness?

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Jen: Yeah.

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It says on one of the things that I had

looked it up, it said, righteousness

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is a devotion to a sinless life

and conformity and purity of heart.

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Stephanie: One line that I really love

from this lesson is that all disciplined

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lives are the product of training.

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Jen: Hmm.

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Stephanie: And we can see that

in every other arena of life,

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Jen: yeah.

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Stephanie: the athletes,

they have trained.

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The musicians, they have trained.

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the academics, they've all trained.

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we should expect that this is going

to take training and training our

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children's character and training

them to see their own sin and

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training them to see their need for

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Christ.

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and it is exhausting, it is wearying, it

is sorrowful sometimes, but when we trust

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in the Lord's partnership with us, when

we trust in the peace that we are sowing

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for their future, then I think we can find

the strength in Him to persevere in it.

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We have been so encouraged by

your faithful listening and we

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have a couple favors to ask of

you to help spread the word.

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Our desire is that this podcast

would encourage mothers who desire to

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parent biblically and you can help us

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:

the first way is you can write a review.

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Podcast platforms are more likely to

recommend this podcast to mothers if

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:

we have a greater number of reviews.

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So we would really appreciate that.

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You can also like us on social media.

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Our Facebook page is Entrusted

Ministries and our Instagram is

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:

Entrusted with a Child's Heart.

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We would still love it if you sent us

a question to answer on the podcast.

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And lastly, did you know that we would be

more than happy to speak at your church

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:

and encourage moms in your community?

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:

So reach out to us.

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You can fill out a contact form on the

Entrusted Ministries website and we'll

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try to get something on the calendar.

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We know you're busy, Mama, so

we are truly grateful you joined

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us for this episode of Again.

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If you're looking for more information

about building your home on the

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foundation of Jesus Christ, head to www.

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EntrustedMinistries.

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com to learn more about our study for

moms, Entrusted with a Child's Heart.

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This scripture saturated study

has blessed families around the

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world, and we want it for you, too.

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Before you go, I want to pray

this benediction over you

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from 2 Thessalonians 1, 11 12.

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We're rooting for you.

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To this end, we always pray for you,

that our God may make you worthy of His

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calling, and may fulfill every resolve

for good, and every work of faith by

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His power, so that the name of our Lord

Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in

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Him, according to the grace of our God.

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And the Lord Jesus Christ.

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Amen.

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Until we meet again.

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About the Podcast

Again
Biblical Motherhood Untangled
So much of what we do as mothers is on repeat. Join us to redeem this repetition and untangle from the confusion and overwhelm of parenting. We'll follow the Agains in the Bible to focus on the things that matter most. Let's look up together to embrace a motherhood full of freedom and joy! This podcast is sponsored by Entrusted Ministries.

About your host

Profile picture for Stephanie Hickox

Stephanie Hickox

Stephanie has always delighted in God’s Word and in sharing it with others. Whether it is equipping mothers and leaders through Entrusted with a Child’s Heart, inspiring students when teaching at homeschool co-ops or children’s ministry, or homeschooling her own children, Stephanie’s life mission is to encourage others to follow faithfully and joyfully after Jesus—especially if they hold her favorite job title: mom.

Betsy Corning wrote Entrusted with a Child’s Heart in 1999 in response to the needs she saw in families as she and David counseled young parents just a few years behind them. Entrusted has been taught in hundreds of churches nationwide, been translated into several foreign languages, and has made its way around the world. More recently, Betsy received her Masters in Biblical Studies from The Master’s University and is developing a new Bible Study program called Get the Word Out. Her passion for God’s Word, discipleship, and teaching biblical principles as they apply to family life has remained strong to this day. One of the greatest blessings in Betsy’s life are her three grown children, their spouses, and ten grandchildren that keep her constantly in touch with every age and stage.

Jen Freckman Is an incredible wealth of wisdom. She will tell you a natural remedy for just about anything! She is also a voracious reader and she is just overflowing with quotes and guidance that she's encountered through reading and being faithful. She delights in her children and is a devoted mother. She is also an amazingly creative problem solver! Her solutions to manage her home and guide her children are inspiring.

Emily Deyo is such a treasure. She is an incredible encourager and servant-hearted woman. When she has the mic in front of her, so much value comes out! She is a wordsmith and her heart consistently beats for how she can encourage and serve others. She is a truly loving and attentive mother.

Join Betsy, Emily, Jen, and Stephanie as they share the wisdom only Scripture and on-the-job training can provide to help untangle the joyful calling of motherhood.